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Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:34AM (#27503837)
"(According to [1], only 1% of Americans are Muslim, and 60+% are Christian--and I would be shocked if 60+% of American film characters are identifiably Christian never mind [how they are portrayed][2])"

Yet both Muslims and Christians are in the news a lot, and there's a lot of political discussion about them.

It would be refreshing if more mainstream fictional media featured them in realistic, three-dimensional portrayals rather than as faceless stereotypes, wouldn't you agree?

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:04PM (#27504272)
> Yet both Muslims and Christians are in the news a lot, and there's a lot of political discussion about them.

I'm not sure what your point is? That Muslims and Christians should be grateful that the news media talks about them a bit more than the entertainment media? To be clear, I'm not arguing that any particular group should have more representation; I'm criticizing the media for its increasingly propagandist angles.

> It would be refreshing if more mainstream fictional media featured them in realistic, three-dimensional portrayals rather than as faceless stereotypes, wouldn't you agree?

In general, yes, but that doesn't justify misleading or agenda-driven news media. And in any case, every time people try to "fix" the entertainment media, we end up with awful content (e.g., the GhostBusters reboot) and frankly I don't want to sacrifice that much quality for sake of representation. My wife and I were just talking about how many really good pre-2015 films wouldn't be made today because they don't thrust the characters' race, gender, etc into the foreground.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:10PM (#27504362)
"I'm not sure what your point is?"

My point is that religious people, whether Christian, Muslim, or whatever, have a serious impact on our lives, and it would benefit everyone if we engaged with them as real people rather than fantasy stereotypes.

Fictional media can help with this by giving us insight in to what people are really like. My contention is that this is more desirable than merely leaving them as faceless talking points in the news.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by threatofrain on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:48PM (#27504884)
IMO it takes serious anthropological commitment to have a non-idiot understanding of a people. I feel this shouldn't be an individual job. Either your entire community has deep, embedded relations with another community or it doesn't.

Otherwise it's like asking for better sources to read about Chinese culture, or like visiting China once a year for vacation. You can't read your way into being culturally competent. You might even move your entire family to China, but it may only be your children who truly begin the road to integration. Anyone who is part of an immigrant community will have a story of the trajectory of cultural competency. It is an optimism which must be fulfilled by your next generation.

You can, however, follow generic protocols of kindness whilst in ignorance.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:59PM (#27505038)
Of course, seeing a movie on the Himalayas is no substitute for visiting the Himalayas, and that's no substitute to living in the Himalayas.

But I'd rather have there be movies on the Himalayas than not, even when we are aware it's not a perfect substitute for the real thing.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by threatofrain on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:00PM (#27505050)
The standard here is being barely adequate, not perfect. Anyone who is part of an immigrant community knows how hard it is to be adequate. That's why you pass on this optimism to the next generation while you blindly chase cultural fads, hoping your kids will fit in.

You smile and nod your way through.

Anyways, the call here is for community integration, not for individual action.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:11PM (#27505186)
Are you saying fictional media are incapable of having a barely adequate portrayal of immigrants?
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by threatofrain on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:21PM (#27505304)
Are you integrated into an immigrant community? Are you part of a church that deals with immigration? Or an ethnic business community that is part of the immigration chain? Or is your community well integrated with those you seek to understand?

Why go it alone?

Is one's clarity on community affairs the difference between choosing WION and India Times? Or The World Journal?

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by bluGill on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:32PM (#27505433)
The problem is that movies influence what we think the truth is. Is Tokyo like the Godzilla movies? I would hope that everything not obviously related to the fictional attack is realistic to how the people actually live, because like it or not movies influence us.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:50PM (#27505737)
If your only view of Tokyo is what you get through Godzilla movies then you definitely have a problem.

The solution is better movies on Tokyo, not no movies on Tokyo.

You're in luck, though, because there are plenty of great movies on Tokyo -- movies that even people living in Tokyo find give great insights in to their own society.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:14PM (#27504406)
Ok, so are we in agreement? Your original response sounded like you were expressing disagreement.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by phkahler on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:02PM (#27504237)
>> It would be refreshing if more mainstream fictional media featured them in realistic, three-dimensional portrayals rather than as faceless stereotypes

Yes and no. First, so much media has fallen down when it comes to character development. Then there's the problem of big companies like Disney that are deliberately secular in their content.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:07PM (#27504312)
> First, so much media has fallen down when it comes to character development.

That's the handy thing about essentialism, you don't need an individual character when you have pre-packaged narratives about their race, gender, etc. Rather than a complex character, we get a canned Black character or a canned White character or a canned Female character or a canned Male character. What do you need to know about a person that you can't infer from their immutable characteristics? (:

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by phkahler on Monday June 14, 2021 @05:29PM (#27508539)
I recently read that the main character in "They Live" had an entire backstory that was never told in the movie. Someone (producer, director, ???) Told Roddy Piper to create a backstory for his character and he did, and he played that part even though it was never shared with anyone. I'd thought about that myself for writing - if you define each character ahead of time and keep their character in mind it will aid writing their parts so they are seamless and self-consistent.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by WalterBright on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:20PM (#27505289)
> It would be refreshing if

I'm more interested in them making more of an effort at a good story.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by burnished on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:50AM (#27504063)
for me, personally, absolutely not. I want thoughtful portrayal of character in media that I consume, but am in no way desiring yet more religious representation.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by mensetmanusman on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:56PM (#27504994)
I haven’t seen a realistic Hollywood portrayal of an average American family in the last 20 years because the secular corporate culture is so willfully ignorant. This is argued as being a feature of interesting content though since ‘nothing average is interesting’.

It has skewed perception, but whether that matters is up for debate.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @01:54PM (#27505804)
What would a realistic portrayal of an average American family look like to you?
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by XorNot on Monday June 14, 2021 @11:57AM (#27504175)
This seems like an odd take to me. What is the point of film and fiction if not to see and experience things you otherwise cannot or would not?

The question I have is what is being preserved by not having a diversity of backgrounds, ethnicities and belief systems in films?

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @12:16PM (#27504426)
The parent seems to be suggesting that he doesn't want the emphasis to be on diversity, but rather on quality of characters. This doesn't imply that the characters have to be homogeneous.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by dahfizz on Monday June 14, 2021 @02:45PM (#27506551)
Having "diverse" characters does not automatically make a movie more interesting. In fact, if you are relying on demographics (religion, race, sexuality) alone to make a character interesting, there is a very good chance the characters are flat, boring, and lazily written.
Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by pmoriarty on Monday June 14, 2021 @03:50PM (#27507407)
Of course having diverse characters does not automatically make a movie more interesting.

But interesting movies can be made about diverse characters as they can about homogeneous characters.

Only depicting homogeneous societies furthers ignorance and demonization of people who are different.

Showing more diversity, in interesting, authentic, and deep ways is one an important way we have of striving towards a society where we better understand and value one another, and get along.

Re:Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers by throwaway894345 on Monday June 14, 2021 @04:13PM (#27507687)
> Only depicting homogeneous societies furthers ignorance and demonization of people who are different.

I think you're arguing against a straw man. It seems pretty clear that no one is arguing for less diversity, but rather against diversity for its own sake or prioritizing it above all other concerns.