News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jcelerier on Saturday June 12, 2021 @02:17PM (#27486386)
> But the point of games is to win

games in themselves have no point. The act of playing games may have a point: it is generally to have fun, not to win.

> edit: In a way, it feels like people who wave you on when they have the right of way at a stop sign. It's not nice, just follow the rules and drive predictably. /rant

you're not nice.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by IncRnd on Saturday June 12, 2021 @02:57PM (#27486672)
It's not a question of being nice or mean but a question of being competent and predictable to other drivers.

We have roundabouts where I live, and some people will always stop before entering. This is done even to the point of waiting for people to arrive and enter from the other roads, despite the law being to yield. This causes more problems than it solves.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:16PM (#27487499)
I wouldn't have said anything if you concluded "you're not nice" from the first part. But you conclude it because they don't like when someone messes up traffic? That's wrong.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jcelerier on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:19PM (#27487516)
how is waving to the other drivers messing up traffic ?
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:19PM (#27487519)
Because it's their turn to move and they're not moving.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jcelerier on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:39PM (#27487638)
... waving just mean thanking by a move of the hand no ? How is that related to moving or not.

Hell, doing it is even an official recommendation in my country: https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Archives/Archives-publicati... ("faites un petit signe de la main" = to wave)

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:49PM (#27487697)
Are you familiar with the term "right of way"?

The complaint isn't about a friendly wave. The complaint is that it's someone's turn to go, and instead of going they wave at someone else to insist the other person go out of turn.

The wave is an insistence of "you go first", not a greeting or a thanks.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jacquesm on Saturday June 12, 2021 @10:12PM (#27489195)
I do this quite frequently with bicycles caught between lanes. Yes, it annoys the people behind me. But it still improves the situation considerably.

Traffic isn't just 'other cars'.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by cuu508 on Sunday June 13, 2021 @01:39AM (#27490060)
Do you stop on the roundabout to let cyclists enter the roundabout?
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jacquesm on Sunday June 13, 2021 @08:09AM (#27491861)
No. That is a net negative. But a cyclist in an unsafe position should be given a path to safety regardless of what happens to other traffic. A cyclist that is not on a roundabout yet is perfectly safe, and stopping traffic on a roundabout to yield to traffic that does not have right of way is not ok.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by cuu508 on Monday June 14, 2021 @05:51AM (#27500871)
Ah, OK – that makes sense. In my country, it's not a question of being nice but a part of the road rules. Loosely translated excerpt:

> The driver has the following responsibilities: (...) to do his utmost to ensure that other road users are not endangered, especially the most vulnerable (pedestrians, cyclists and electric scooter riders)

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jacquesm on Monday June 14, 2021 @07:57AM (#27501531)
If a cyclist ignored the law and entered a roundabout anyway then I would definitely stop. But if they're waiting in front of a yield sign then obviously not.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by jcelerier on Sunday June 13, 2021 @02:56AM (#27490400)
I'm not, and after checking the website of multiple driving schools in my country, I guess this is a fairly deep cultural difference - they all mention that you can always let the other driver go first by courtesy, and that adaptation to the situation overrides the base ruleset.
Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by Dylan16807 on Sunday June 13, 2021 @03:25AM (#27490534)
The issue is that very often it would only take you a couple seconds to go through anyway, so you end up forcing the other person to adapt in a way that leaves everyone either the same or delayed.

There are definitely places where letting someone go is appropriate, especially if it's leaving a gap so they can make a turn. But if you're on a road and you have to wave them through then most of the time you're not actually helping, and fake-helping is an annoying thing.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by spicybright on Saturday June 12, 2021 @09:30PM (#27489009)
If someone waves me on that goes against the right of way, I'll sit there till their arm gets tired.

Unpredictable traffic is dangerous, that's like, driving 101. It's nicer to let everyone follow the rules and stay safer.

Re:Win at Risk by using systems thinking by aflag on Saturday June 12, 2021 @04:18PM (#27487168)
True, people find different things fun. I sympathize with the idea that playing a game not following the rules and not making the best logic choices make the game less fun, because it becomes more about luck than skill. I, for one, have no joy winning or playing something entirely random, whereas beating other people on a skill based game is fun.