You have effectively picked the worst sample of dogs, and established a standard that a human being may take a life based on that standard.

Dogs have tells too, and there's common ones that most dog owners will know:

- ears backed with tail tucked or quick wagging

- cowering / laying down (in a non-relaxed posture)

- deep growls and a leg spread defensive stance

And there's tells that occur far before the above. Dogs are domesticated animals (with millions of years of domestication, as opposed to cats), so comparing them in your head to a coyote is a false dichotomy from the get-go.

Your situation and GPs are very different. GP has specifically framed a dog that walked up to them off-leash. You are talking about having to potentially defend a child's life. There's a massive chasm between the two both legally and ethically.

I’m not a dog owner and it’s not my responsibility to determine the friendly unleashed dogs from the unfriendly ones. In an area where a leash is required, my assumption is they’re all unfriendly and their owners are all selfish idiots.

“Leash your fucking dog” is my go-to. “Are you selfish or stupid?” works, too.

I still have a (fading) scar on my calf from that one time I ran past some tables in a cafe as a toddler. I hold no ill will towards the dog that leapt out from under a table and sunk his jaws into my leg before the owners could even react. But let's be clear that big dog + unfamiliar small child is not about "can you read the tells".

Sure, it doesn't always work that way. Dogs are still animals and can be unpredictable. That does not rise to the level of shooting some stray or off-leash dog. I still have puncture marks in my hand from when I dislodged a sucker from my childhood dogs throat and he bit down.

Defending yourself and being a violent person are two different things. The man who shoots any off-leash or stray dog is just violent.

>Dogs are still animals and can be unpredictable.

Which is precisely why they must be on a leash, always. Except in a fenced off area maybe.

There are a lot of places that put on their website or Google maps that they're dog friendly and allow off-leash or on-leash visits. So "always" is not even near correct here, it is on a dog owner (and other visitors) to determine whether the place they're visiting is dog-friendly and to what degree.

??? If youre in an off leash park do what ever you want. No one is arguing that.

Im annoyed at the leash-less dogs in parks where dogs aren't even allowed. Although they're the least of my problems, a neighbor has a couple of pet pigs.

I'm guessing you missed the whole point of who I was replying to. They weren't defending anyone or talking about an aggressive dog, they were talking about a dog that walked up to a man and he shot it. That was the example. That is a by definition example of a sociopath, dog owners not putting their stupid dog on a leash is probably irresponsible or selfish, but not sociopathic.

I've already acknowledged there's nuance to the idea of being able to shoot a dog, much like there is to shooting a human. You were so desperate to argue your silly little point about defense that you forgot you, and some of the other folks here, are defending someone who shot a dog for no reason.

That's who you defended and voted for. That's what I was upset about.

I actually like dogs. Id be honored to have my BF entrust his dog to me for a few days.

But the onus is not on me to meet your pet half way, learn the species’ “tells” or pretend that there are no irresponsible owners.

The onus is on you.

Yeah, sure, I mentioned tells because having more information is better. The onus is on me to protect my dog from sociopaths who bring guns to shoot random dogs that walk up to them (as a reminder, that is the situation we're discussing apart from your "defense of a child" scenario)

Your dog comes up and sniffs me, fine. Slobber sucks but whatever.

But if it yelps, barks, gets territorial, bares his teeth, etc, the sociopath (ie unable to behave properly in society) is the dog owner who cant keep the dog on a leech.

The number of dog attacks that occur in the US every year suggest your “you can always avoid a dog attack” model is completely wrong.