> Leftists have been very clear that they want the police abolished.

Citation _very much_ needed.

In my experience this is not a position of the left, beyond maybe some fringe <0.1% groups.

Stating that as a "position of the left" as a fact merely reinforces what the GP said: "I think the likely explanation for this conundrum is that people don't support <whatever strawman of the week is used to attack a caricature of a position>. "

This is the whole point we're arguing about up front. That activists have a oversized influence on what we discuss.

Less than half of black people support defunding or reducing the police presence but that conversation has smothered all discussions of more realistic and popular reform.

This is not definitive or representative but it is one very public example

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

Would a link from someone who doesn't want the police abolished persuade you, or have you already decided those people on the left do not count?

There are views on all ends of the scale. Most, even conservatives want some police reform.

What a silly dichotomy. Just because you aren’t convinced by N=1 doesn’t mean you’ve closed your mind to a possibility. Can we grow up?

Leftists have been very clear they want police held accountable.

"Leftists have been very clear that they want the police abolished. "

No, most aren't crazy enough to think that abolishing the police is better than what we have.

Instead, they ask to "defund" the police, and then redefine "defund" to mean that many of their daily services should be given to others more qualified for peaceful resolutions, without carrying weapons, and police should be available for backup of those situations.

I personally remain unconvinced, and I think we'd see a lot of the people doing those services injured because they went into dangerous situations without adequate protection. But I can't deny that the police have shown a lot of poor judgement over the years, so something needs to change.

I think the best reforms are make police officers pay for their own insurance, break up the union, and pay officers more to compensate for the reduced job security.

I also wonder if better vetting and training would help, and of course increase pay accordingly.

“Instead, they ask to "defund" the police, and then redefine "defund" to mean that many of their daily services should be given to others more qualified for peaceful resolutions, without carrying weapons, and police should be available for backup of those situations.”

I’m so tired of these rhetorical games. It’s dishonest and we need to stop accepting it as a legitimate form of discourse. No respect for people and politicians who do this.

Who do you consider to be responsible for CHAZ?

A simple question. But since this question was +2, and is now -2; I guess there are a lot of people who don't want it to be asked..

>Leftists have been very clear that they want the police abolished.

Lazy rhetoric will always let one down in a big way. At the very least, as one is making broad, sweeping generalisations, one will totally miss what the real issues are, and the real problems.