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Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by goldenkey on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:19AM (#27274680)
Don't forget that Lodash was basically JDalton's rip of Underscore.js. There used to be a mention of it, since the selling point was benchmarks. Now, I don't see any mention of Underscore...
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by hinkley on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:28PM (#27282926)
How is underscore these days?

Lodash as an npm module is out of control, file-size wise, and I'm not sure I'm really getting anything for it, other than once a year having to make sure we don't have ten copies of it that can't be deduped (Currently it's occupying 29MB of disk space on my production machines)

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:45AM (#27274840)
Not sure I'd call it a "rip", "ripping" for me is associated with "ripping media" which is copying video/music/data from CDs to local hardware. Lodash is more of a re-implementation of a MIT library, not something that should be shameful.

As I remember it, Lodash biggest difference was its modular approach also, not all about performance. Lodash also addressed some inconsistencies in Underscore.js.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by dorian-graph on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:36AM (#27275187)
> "ripping" for me is associated with "ripping media" which is copying video/music/data from CDs to local hardware

For many others, the OP's use is common and correct—in a lot of areas.

"They ripped me off" is very prevalent in English speaking countries too, outside of tech.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:44AM (#27275231)
Yeah, that's my understanding as well, from "ripped me off", implying stealing or something negative.

Having the (almost) same API surface as another MIT library is hardly a "ripoff" but a re-implementation.

Edit: since new evidence has come forward (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27275379) I think we can all agree that Lodash is a fork of Underscore.js, nothing more and nothing else.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by cowsandmilk on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:09AM (#27275379)
Really, lodash was a fork of underscore, not a reimplementation. The git history shows it.

https://github.com/lodash/lodash/commits/0.1.0?after=e0971cd...

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:40AM (#27275613)
Perfect, even better! Now we can all correct ourselves and call it a fork, which sounds much nicer than "rip", "ripoff" or "clone".
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by goldenkey on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:35AM (#27277317)
Most forks mention their origins somewhere in their bio. I'd still call it a rip considering no credit is being given at all. Why should I need to dig into the Git history to find out the creative origin of Lodash?
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by Karunamon on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:44PM (#27282383)
The license file reads: Based on Underscore.js, copyright Jeremy Ashkenas, DocumentCloud and Investigative Reporters & Editors <http://underscorejs.org/>

If they were giving "no credit at all", they would be in violation of the MIT license.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:43PM (#27282375)
> Most forks mention their origins somewhere in their bio

Ok, does that make forks who don't mention where they forked from rips? Huge leap in logic.

> Why should I need to dig into the Git history to find out the creative origin of Lodash?

Well, if you're interested in the origin you either look for information available in threads like this, where other people dig or you dig yourself. Not sure what the problem is. Someone published a library under MIT, another person forked that library and created a new one, also under MIT, and somehow the fork is now a rip? Give me a break

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by design-material on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:59PM (#27281836)
More accurate is 'stolen code without proper attribution'
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by Karunamon on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:43PM (#27282371)
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lodash/lodash/4.17.10-npm/...

> Based on Underscore.js, copyright Jeremy Ashkenas, DocumentCloud and Investigative Reporters & Editors <http://underscorejs.org/>

They've given precisely as much attribution as is required.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:42PM (#27282362)
Hope you don't publish any MIT code and then blame people when they fork it. That'd be really against the spirit of the MIT license.
Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by goldenkey on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:13AM (#27275019)
Allowed or legal doesn't imply couth. As far as I can tell, Lodash no longer mentions Underscore anywhere. This seems wrong..as if one wants to look more original than one actually is.

I have no qualms with forks or reimplementations (ie. Android - Java.) I actively support the paradigm.

But in this case, it's pretty shitty to try to erase all evidence of said inspiration. Most forks and reimplementations don't do that. They pay homage to their origin with at least a shout out.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:48AM (#27275253)
I don't think Lodash ever "credited" Underscore.js for it's origin. Lodash used to have a "compat" version that promised to work the same as Underscore.js but with better performance, but I think that's about it.

After some digging, it seems like the Lodash website stopped mentioning Underscore.js around 2015 sometime, but even before that, it never had "evidence of said inspiration" as claimed by you.

Here are the versions I looked at:

- https://web.archive.org/web/20120826202523/http://lodash.com...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20130502014523/http://lodash.com...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20140517192947/http://lodash.com...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20150513014815/https://lodash.co...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20160803063412/https://lodash.co...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20170830163720/https://lodash.co...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20180703043557/https://lodash.co...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20190803030353/https://lodash.co...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20200615092636/http://lodash.com...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20210314233141/https://lodash.co...

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by goldenkey on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:30AM (#27277247)
Good digging. The 2012 banner is

    > A drop-in replacement\* for Underscore.js
I'd consider this to be an admission of where the API came from.

You are right though, my memory failed me. No mention of forking.. Shameless!

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by DonHopkins on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:58AM (#27275764)
"Rip-Off Menu" is another term of art for "Tear-Off Menu". ;)

Inside Macintosh > Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines > Part 2 - The Interface Elements > Chapter 4 - Menus > Tear-Off Menus and Palettes

http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/doc...

http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/doc...

>A tear-off menu allows users to move a menu around the screen like a window. Tear-off menus save desktop space because the user can place them on top of a document or move them to a convenient position. If you implement a tear-off menu rather than a fixed palette in a window, you allow the user to have a larger workspace in document windows. Users can also choose to leave the menu in the menu bar, or tear it off and close it when necessary. Tear-off menus give the user more flexibility than fixed palettes do.

Re:Use native context menus on Mac OS by theta_d on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:13AM (#27275021)
Rip short for rip off which can mean a clone essentially.