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Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by 01100011 on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:04PM (#27272207)
We'll cure those too. Rather than worrying about that scenario, I'd rather consider what the world will be like when there are no STDs. It's certainly more amusing than fretting about something that has already happened(super-variants of run of the mill STDs).

As an aside, I wonder what role STDs played in the development of religion and the religious superstitions surrounding sex. Can monogamy survive in the long-term in a world without consequences to promiscuity?

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by tsimionescu on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:21AM (#27273400)
I don't think historic STDs were a major component of the bans against promiscuity, since before syphilis was brought over from the Americas, you didn't really have life-threatening STDs around in the Middle East, Africa, Europe and Asia (HPV's link with cancer notwithstanding).

Much more likely, the problems with promiscuity were related to 'bastard' children and their role in inheritance; and to the father's uncertainty that a child was biologically theirs. In addition, many religious outlooks favor abstinence from bodily pleasures of all kind, so forbidding sexual pleasure and especially promiscuity seems well in tone with this.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by 01100011 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:00AM (#27273754)
Interesting that syphilis is theorized to come from the new world. I hadn't heard that before.

Did the old world have gonorrhea, herpes, genital warts, molluscum, trich, or any other visible STD? It seems like any one of those would be sufficient to cause a superstitious, iron age people to suspect something was plaguing the sexually promiscuous.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by inglor_cz on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:04AM (#27274580)
The old world had a lot of STDs, but nothing as destructive as syphilis.

Notably, when syphilis was introduced into the Old World population, it was described as a very severe acute disease. It only became more chronic after a period of adaptation that took several decades. This might have made the initial societal reaction more extreme.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/syphilis/painful-history-odd-...

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by barry-cotter on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:30AM (#27273935)
> I don't think historic STDs were a major component of the bans against promiscuity, since before syphilis was brought over from the Americas, you didn't really have life-threatening STDs around in the Middle East, Africa, Europe and Asia (HPV's link with cancer notwithstanding).

Chlamydia rarely has life threatening complications but gonorrhea and hepatitis can kill. And there aren’t any STDs that don’t often cause infertility. Religions favored not screwing around because you’re guaranteed to get an STD eventually if you do, and that will very likely lead to infertility or worse.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by felipemnoa on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:44PM (#27272383)
>>Can monogamy survive in the long-term in a world without consequences to promiscuity?

The problem is that not everybody likes to share their partner. The likely consequence of a partner sleeping with other people is separation or divorce.

Also, I'm pretty sure that STDs have virtually never stopped anybody from cheating on their spouse if they wanted to. So no, I don't think that a lack of STDs will have much effect on monogamy, if at all.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by swingerthrwy on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:58AM (#27273738)
Plenty of couples engage in consensual sex with other people… not always the result is doom and gloom.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by dvfjsdhgfv on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:24AM (#27273892)
Things get a bit more complicated once you get kids.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by swingerthrwy on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:54AM (#27275287)
Only in availability, not in willingness. Besides, they will grow up.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by maxerickson on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:10AM (#27275383)
They said 'not everybody', which is not an absolute construction.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by tw04 on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:35PM (#27272340)
>Can monogamy survive in the long-term in a world without consequences to promiscuity?

I guess define consequences? I sure as heck wouldn’t be ok with my wife having sex with other people just because STDs aren’t a problem… the consequence would be divorce with or without the STD.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:22AM (#27274305)
> Can monogamy survive in the long-term in a world without consequences to promiscuity?

Well yeah, sex is cool and all but I don't like strangers or sharing.

I've never understood the "promiscuous" lifestyle that a different part of society seems to be natural at. Thankfully that's not the norm, just one of many subcultures.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Valgrim on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:23PM (#27272284)
What do you mean by can monogamy survive? Do you mean that in a world without STDs it would be abnormal for someone to expect an intimate relationship to be exclusive?
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Frost1x on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:38PM (#27272351)
The intimate relationship is one component of monogamy, there's also having a steady nearly guaranteed sexual partner with low risks.

Ideally you're both monogamous so unless one had STIs before entering the relationship, it's incredibly unlikely either would acquire one and almost certainly not from intercourse but through some other means.

There are people more interested in the low risk stable sexual benefits of a trustworthy monogamous relationship. I personally doubt it's more than the number of people wanting an intimate relationship beyond sex though.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:24AM (#27274320)
To add, relationships are not only about sex or a sexual partner. The emphasis in a proper relationship is on the partner part, not the sex part.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by justinator on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:29AM (#27272986)
The intimate relationship is one component of monogamy

It's certainly not exclusive to monogamy.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by ekianjo on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:17AM (#27272550)
> Can monogamy survive in the long-term in a world without consequences to promiscuity?

Consequences to promiscuity are not limited to STDs. Bad framing of the issue.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by kenneth on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:55AM (#27274529)
There are very little consequences to promiscuity today as long as you're not gay. Heterosexual vaginal sex is very low risk, especially with birth control being widely available. There's a bit of a gender disconnect in risk, but for a male it's even lower risk in terms of catching something than for the female.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by a2tech on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:50AM (#27275702)
Treatment resistant variants of syphillis and gonherea are on the upswing. Herpes is still a persistent problem. And these risks don't care whether you're gay or straight. I don't care what people do (inside the bounds of informed consent), but no matter what, wear a condom and don't share needles.

Otherwise, have a blast.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by geomark on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:26AM (#27272590)
Is monogamy in humans the result of evolutionary pressures or a social construct to serve other purposes? With the right social indoctrination the majority might not care at all about monogamy, even find it strange and undesirable, ala Brave New World.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by rorykoehler on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:34AM (#27272629)
I think I care about the well-being of my family more than a cheap thrill.... by many orders of magnitude.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by geomark on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:28AM (#27272965)
What if you don't have a family? In Brave New World there are no families. Technology plus social indoctrination have eliminated the need and desire for them.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by a2tech on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:57AM (#27275752)
A partner, of both the sexual and emotional variety, is far more satisfying than any random sexual hookup. Its the bedrock foundation of my life. Some sort of short lived satisfaction from hooking up with a random doesn't hold a candle to what we have. I'm not religious, we don't have kids, and we've been together for almost 20 years.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by rorykoehler on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:44AM (#27273132)
That's a hard pass from me. I rather we didn't use Brave New World and 1984 as guides on how to build the future.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by geomark on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:29AM (#27273486)
Same for me. But of course that is because we have been conditioned to feel that way, isn't it?
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by rorykoehler on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:56AM (#27274113)
It's more nature than nurture. Babies died in a Romanian orphanage because they were only fed and diaper changed and not held for example. I can't find the source right now but I did find this https://www.livescience.com/21778-early-neglect-alters-kids-...
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by elbear on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:41AM (#27274010)
Sure, but that's not something people feel comfortable hearing, judging by your downvotes.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by rorykoehler on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:03AM (#27274171)
It's just not true. We're not robots.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by legostormtroopr on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:04AM (#27273285)
You know monogamy and pair-bonding are observed in many species? Several species of apes, monkeys, birds and fish have been observed to implement life-long pair bonding.

From a cold, logical perspective there are certainly evolutionary benefits to having a pair-bond not least of which is future certainty of care, for yourself and your joint offspring.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by zaarn on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:28AM (#27274728)
From a cold logical perspective, it would be advantagous to have many mates you share with others, that all take care of any offspring, since then even in the event of the death of the biological parents, the social parents can continue care for the offspring. Redundancies and failsafes are better if you have more.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by jinjin2 on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:37AM (#27273988)
Even for pair-bonded species, DNA testing has repeatedly found offspring to have fathers different from the mate.

So maybe natures optimal path is closer to pair-bonding + promiscuity, rather than either on their own?

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by rejectedandsad on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:38AM (#27272642)
You know many of us can’t find a partner anyway, right? “Unchecked promiscuity” isn’t really a problem.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by bawolff on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:06AM (#27272490)
We also now have paternity tests readily available, so we dont neccesarily need marriage for inheritence purposes.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by tryonenow on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @12:10AM (#27272513)
There are understated psychological consequences to casual sex, particularly for females. Only in my 30s did I begin to understand the damage that my ostensibly harmless casual relations caused to many past partners, particularly those who grew attached before the end of the casual relationship.

Pair bonding is crucial to social organization and casual encounters erode the psychological capacity for such bonds, without nullifying the innate human desire for long term companionship. The result in a "sex positive" society is a growing proportion of perpetually lonely and frustrated people, or dysfunctional relationships. One of the few instances in my opinion where ignorance truly may be bliss.

So, to your question, it's quite possible that we will rediscover the purpose of monogamous marriage, if we can reason past the barriers of some recent ideologies.

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Marsymars on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:20AM (#27272885)
> There are understated psychological consequences to casual sex, particularly for females. Only in my 30s did I begin to understand the damage that my ostensibly harmless casual relations caused to many past partners, particularly those who grew attached before the end of the casual relationship.

Do you have any reading material on this to suggest?

Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by tsimionescu on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @02:27AM (#27273457)
Marriage has often had little to do with monogamy. Adultery was the norm throughout the centuries, particularly when marriage was forced, had to happen very early in life, and when divorce was not an option. Prostitution was often utilized most by the married, not by bachelors.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by Firadeoclus on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:36AM (#27274789)
Monogamy and casual sex are not opposites. You can both monogamously engage in casual sex, and be non-monogamous and reject casual sex.
Re:HIV mRNA Vaccines-Progress and Future Paths by refurb on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:40PM (#27272366)
We'll cure those too.

Sure, but after how many people get sick? Seems like a very dismissive comment.