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Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by samatman on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:30PM (#27266361)
I don't think desktop GUIs can or should be 'intuitive'.

They should be consistent, discoverable, and customizable.

I give macOS full marks for consistency, and a passing grade for customizable, but it's hardly discoverable! I read these kinds of HN posts because of all the little tips and tricks I find.

Operating systems used to come with a thick manual, and you could buy an even thicker "missing manual" book at the local bookstore. macOS could use one of those.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by Koshkin on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:36PM (#27266456)
> consistent, discoverable

I think that's what 'intuitive' means, practically, in this context.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by defaultname on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:56PM (#27266752)
I think he quoted intuitive because that's an effectively meaningless claim. To someone who spent two decades in Windows, everything Windows-like will be "intuitive". That doesn't make it a universal truth.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by linuxftw on Monday May 24, 2021 @02:06PM (#27267693)
The concepts in Windows used to translate to the physical world. "Buttons" and "Menus." Sure, to an alien species, these things are unintuitive, but no more so than a door knob.

Of course, physical things are losing buttons. I guess kids will refer to things as 'tap the tappy spot' or some such.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by m_mueller on Monday May 24, 2021 @01:41PM (#27267373)
I actually find MacOS applications far more discoverable than equivalent windows or Unix tools. That's precisely thanks to the consistent menu structure, which always includes a help menu with a search option, including both the help files as well as the menu itself. Having help show you where to find a particular option so you can learn it for next time is precisely what I want.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by samatman on Monday May 24, 2021 @01:46PM (#27267428)
It's better than nothing, and yeah, probably better than the competition as well.

But then there are core features like "a file icon on a document window can be dragged exactly like a file icon in the finder" that you can use macOS for years and never find. That's before they started hiding the file icons in Big Sur!

macOS is packed with little things like that.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by szhu on Monday May 24, 2021 @02:04PM (#27267666)
It still works in Big Sur! Just hover over the window title and the icon (called the "document proxy icon") will appear.

I think it's fine that they hid it, since even before, the things you can do with it (dragging, cmd/ctrl-clicking) were already hidden.

The only old functionality that is lost with Big Sur is that you could glance at the icon to see if there are unsaved changes (if so, the icon would be dimmed). But you can still tell by looking for the dot in the red close button.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by yknuri on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:34PM (#27268701)
I had no idea one could do this!
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by nneonneo on Monday May 24, 2021 @02:00PM (#27267622)
Or, that you can Cmd+click on the document icon or name in any titlebar to pull up a menu of its containing directories. This one is _super_ handy and has zero discoverability.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by Krisando on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @08:05AM (#27275814)
Can you give some examples of applications you're comparing?
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by m_mueller on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @10:30AM (#27277240)
it doesn't really depend on the application. every MacOS application has a menu in the same style, and with the menu & help file spotlight search that I described. I find almost no Windows app has something equivalent (as in a menu search), plus they have a multitude of differently shaped menus with various guidelines for how to structure them.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by Krisando on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @01:25PM (#27279668)
To be honest, the programs I use commonly like Discord, Streamlabs OBS, Ramme, Typora and Poddr haven't really been good for that.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by xiphias2 on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:56PM (#27268959)
I don't find key bindings in MacOS consistent. The first thing I started missing from Windows is the F2 button for renaming things. I can do that everywhere in Windows. In Mac there's no keyboard shortcut for it, so probably I could add it in Finder, but it probably won't work in other file dialogs (or maybe yes).
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by sbtrct on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:10PM (#27269115)
The return key is functionally the same as F2 in Windows.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by xiphias2 on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:30PM (#27269342)
Thanks, in Windows that starts the program, but I guess there's another key for that...I'll have to experiment more. I love my M1 Macbook Pro so much that I want to get used to the OS.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by vladvasiliu on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:44PM (#27270065)
It's CMD+Down arrow.

One thing that's killer for me in MacOS vs Windows, regarding consistency, is text fields. They always behave the same (except, of course, for weird apps, say ms office). CMD+Backspace will delete a whole word even in password fields or system settings, etc. This is always hit or miss in Windows. I know it doesn't work for passwords. In Windows explorer it works... sometimes. It works in the address bar, but not in the preferences or when renaming a file.

Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by qubitcoder on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:50PM (#27270105)
You can use Cmd+o to open a program (and the "return" key to rename it).
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by xiphias2 on Monday May 24, 2021 @06:02PM (#27270210)
It sounds like these combinations wouldn't work in a file selector for example, but I will try them.
Re:How Intuitive Are Macs Really? by jcelerier on Monday May 24, 2021 @05:29PM (#27269947)
> I don't think desktop GUIs can or should be 'intuitive'.

why ?