I think everyone should visit at least once if they can. I really enjoyed my time in southern China. It's a strange place that has little enthusiasm for foreigners but a worthwhile experience nonetheless.
Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...
China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime.
Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the United States or purchased products from them because of this stance? Honest question?
It seems to be something well out of my control and I'm accepting of that fact.
Other countries include Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Rwanda, Cuba. I'm highly interested in what places you have visited with these personal requirements before travelling. Never visited Russia, Eastern Europe or South East Asia?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...
This appears to be the best source for US prison/jail population statistics. Still not sure where you’re getting 4/5th of people in American prisons haven’t even been convicted of a crime. It’s showing 470k of 2.3M haven’t been convicted, but are in jail prior to trial. Certainly other countries use a similar system to detain suspects prior to trial?
Are you suggesting that the US shouldn’t lock up suspects prior to trial? Honest question?
Now, back to the flaws in the US system. The referenced web site is hosted by a group of prison reformers who are trying to identify the cause and potential solutions to the current mass incarceration situation in the US.
Does China have similar internal human rights groups questioning the imprisonment in concentration camps of the Uyhgur population? Is anyone in China allowed to host a web site questioning the situation? Again, an honest question.
My understanding is that China does not allow such levels of questioning, even though technically the Chinese constitution allows for free speech. Why? Again, an honest question.
As an American, I can travel to the border and deliver aid to the migrant population to see the situation in person. Can the Chinese even visit the suspected Uhygur camps? Again, an honest question?
Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine which i got for visiting Chernobyl and from what i saw living in Ukraine can be absolutely horrible, the poverty is breathtaking if you are used to european standards.
When you choose to disconnect or blame or shame them for the actions of others, your world and understanding of it grows smaller. And who do you think benefits from that?
I don’t question the statistic of 50% of the prison population being black, yet only being 10% of population. I also expect the majority in that prison demographic to be equally as guilty as the criminals I know.
I doubt you’ll find an American who personally knows 10 people that are locked up, and of those, 8 who were falsely imprisoned.
You might find an American who knows 100 people who are locked up, and 1 was possibly falsely imprisoned.
Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?
Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.
This falsely implies that laws are consistently just, strongly benefit society in evidence-based ways, aren't regularly composed by lobbyists or in response to party politics and are applied equally.
LOL. It doesn't imply that at all. It repeatedly hints at corruption in justice systems.
People are always so biased...
Except you?
What the CCP is doing to the Uyghur population in China is modern genocide, full stop. No amount of whataboutism or America-blaming can change that.
I suppose I'm also just defending my own stance, which is awareness of shit happening around the world, but a "what am I going to do about it" laziness borne out of convenience.
I'm a person. I fucking agree with your desire to boycott China in solidarity with the oppressed. What I'm not, and you are being (but are not, since no one is one thing, since you're human), is an asshole. I don't assume the person on the other side of the wire is evil, or incapable of having a civil discussion, or, ludicrously, as you are doing, a supporter of evil because they advocated tourism in China.
The "good faith" is about talking to someone, not about Pakistan, or spying, or anything else. It's about not assuming I'm evil. It's about you having an assumption of the decency of your interlocutor, and them doing the same for you, even when you disagree, even when you suspect their opinions support evil. This is what allows you to be heard, and it's the only path that you'll ever have to actually convince someone of (your very obvious and very common on HN anyways) opinions.
For chrissakes the parent post didn't even advocate especially going to China to support ethic cleansing, they just suggested its a good idea if you wish to understand the world. Which, objectively, is fucking true. You're what's wrong with the internet! Grow up and understand that you're talking to humans, or go to reddit, please.
Hyperbole much.
> Grow up and understand that you're talking to humans
I'm not talking to humans I'm WRITING in a public Forum which is read by humans. If a little bit of rhetoric to show just how willfully ignorant the question "why in good faith shouldn't i go to china" is too much for you, then the internet might not be a thing that's good for your mental health. Especially an opinion amplifying up vote based circle jerk like ycombinator, reddit, etc.