News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by WalterBright on Thursday May 20, 2021 @01:52PM (#27224576)
> A native English speaker would never have said that

English has its barbarian roots overlaid with French words from the Norman conquest of England. The French aristocracy moved in and took over. The modern result of that is the "English" words of French origin are tells of upper class origins. Americans use that, consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes it's referred to as "coded speech".

For example, someone from upper class America will "purchase" something while a lower class person will "buy" it.

It's not just slight accent changes that distinguish class in America.

Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by hervature on Thursday May 20, 2021 @02:30PM (#27225172)
Very interesting. The connection to French is not immediately obvious as both "purchase" and "buy" would translate to "achat". However, "por chase" in French is "for the chase/hunt" which begins to resemble some definition of "purchase".
Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by quickthrowman on Thursday May 20, 2021 @02:48PM (#27225422)
Norman/Saxon meat/animal word pairs are interesting; the saxons were the hunters and farmers, and the normans ate the meat. This led to a bunch of word pairs:

  Beef/cow  
  Poultry/chicken  
  Pork/pig  
  Veal/calf  
  Mutton/sheep
There are other areas of English vocabulary with dual Saxon/Norman words as well.

Bill Bryson has a great book that explores how English became what it is now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_Tongue It’s an easy read with lots of interesting info.

Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by Mediterraneo10 on Thursday May 20, 2021 @06:27PM (#27228219)
Please don’t recommend Bill Bryson’s The Mother Tongue. Bryson has no actual background in linguistics and there is a factual error or urban myth on nearly every page of that book. There are loads of pop-sci “history of English” books written by people who were actually competent in the subject.
Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by quickthrowman on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:19PM (#27236980)
Thanks for the heads up, I looked into criticism of this book and I won’t recommend it in the future.

If you happen to see this reply, would ‘Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English’ by McWhorter be a better choice for a pop-sci history of English? r/Linguistics seems to be fine with him.

Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by BrandoElFollito on Thursday May 20, 2021 @04:02PM (#27226400)
In which French did you find "por chase”? (this is not aggressive, I am french and this does not mean anything but it may be a dialect or some as ancient French?)
Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by jgwil2 on Friday May 21, 2021 @10:53AM (#27234791)
The etymology given by Wiktionary[0] is:

> From Middle English purchasen, from Anglo-Norman purchacer (“seek to obtain”) from pur- (from Latin pro-) + chac(i)er (“to chase, pursue”). Compare Old French porchacier (“to follow, to chase”), which has given French pourchasser (“to chase without relent”).

[0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/purchase

Re:Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speak... by BrandoElFollito on Friday May 21, 2021 @12:46PM (#27236464)
OK thanks, so this is XIV-XV century French (http://micmap.org/dicfro/search/dictionnaire-godefroy/porcha...)