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Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by sokoloff on Thursday May 20, 2021 @11:22AM (#27222326)
Exactly! When the government starts handing out money, we should expect a mix of legitimate and fraudulent applicants. I’d be shocked if literally anything else happened.

The key is to get the money quickly to the legitimate users and to ensure the fraudsters eventually do not benefit (and ideally suffer).

Eventual consistency is fine for the fraudsters, but you need immediate relief for the legitimate users.

Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by gruez on Thursday May 20, 2021 @11:28AM (#27222420)
>and to ensure the fraudsters eventually do not benefit (and ideally suffer).

How strong is this expectation? eg. for social security or tax refund fraud, what's the conviction/recovery rate?

Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by clairity on Thursday May 20, 2021 @11:43AM (#27222640)
yah, the risk needs to be high enough to hit a tipping point for mass deterrence. currently it’s much more likely (a couple percent iirc) that middle class americans will be audited (for small amounts, largely automated) than the well-off (~0.1% iirc, even though the population is much smaller). we need to flip those percentages (and more), no matter the cost. we are a rich country, and fairness is actually worth paying for rather than mindless bureaucracy and rote compliance.
Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by sokoloff on Thursday May 20, 2021 @11:47AM (#27222708)
That does not match data I’ve seen: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-are-the-odds-be... (increasing audit rates at all levels over $200K in return AGI and over 2% audit rates for all ranges at/over $1M.)
Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by ceejayoz on Thursday May 20, 2021 @11:59AM (#27222876)
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/eitc-audit

> In a baffling twist of logic, the intense IRS focus on Humphreys County is actually because so many of its taxpayers are poor. More than half of the county’s taxpayers claim the earned income tax credit, a program designed to help boost low-income workers out of poverty. As we reported last year, the IRS audits EITC recipients at higher rates than all but the richest Americans, a response to pressure from congressional Republicans to root out incorrect payments of the credit.

https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-ea...

> On the other hand, auditing the rich is hard. It takes senior auditors hours upon hours to complete an exam. What’s more, the letter says, “the rate of attrition is significantly higher among these more experienced examiners.” As a result, the budget cuts have hit this part of the IRS particularly hard.

> For now, the IRS says, while it agrees auditing more wealthy taxpayers would be a good idea, without adequate funding there’s nothing it can do. “Congress must fund and the IRS must hire and train appropriate numbers of [auditors] to have appropriately balanced coverage across all income levels,” the report said.

Re:Hundreds of PPP Loans Went to Fake Farms in Absurd Places by clairity on Thursday May 20, 2021 @12:16PM (#27223097)
my memory is hazy and i might have confused population percentages with cohort percentages, but the real point is that not only is the return greater for higher income audits[0] but it sustains a fairer and more robust economy. we’re currently doing it backwards, and that got worse (in overall funding, tax policy, and audit targeting, at least) under a purported billionaire presidency for obviously self-serving reasons.

[0] just one quick link on this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/treasury-sec-larry-summers-says...