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Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by pradn on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @11:37AM (#27210149)
It doesn't seem like anyone believes cryptos are supposed to be currencies any more. All the talk around them is around them being a new, exciting, and potentially very lucrative investment class. If you go to Coinbase's front page, you see that you can buy and sell them, like you can with Robinhood. It's not trying to be a PayPal. The currency-ness does serve an important purpose. It helps bring in investment for the nebulous future where using them as currencies will have advantages.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by divs1210 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:55PM (#27211282)
I have used crypto (LTC, BUSD, XLM, XMR) to pay internet strangers so many times I've lost count. Looks like you just haven't tried it yet.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by cm2187 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:08PM (#27211453)
Perhaps he doesn't consume the same sort of products than you!
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by nroets on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:15PM (#27211549)
It's a fad[1]. It won't last.

[1]: https://Bitcoin.IsNot.Money

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by xtracto on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @07:42PM (#27215813)
One more bitcoin obituary for the collection.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by aparsons on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @05:44PM (#27214891)
Not sure why you’re downvoted
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by rebelos on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @09:18PM (#27216324)
There's a sizable cabal of delusional crypto fanatics that lurk HN. And they're extra salty after this latest correction.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by mousepilot on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:13PM (#27211520)
yeah Ima have to update your file buddy
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by remolacha on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @02:00PM (#27212122)
Not all crypto assets are crypto currencies. Many DeFi tokens (ex. UNI, SUSHI, AAVE) govern projects with real cash flows and are poised to become more like equities on the blockchain
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by lurkerasdfh8 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @05:39PM (#27214836)
> real cash flows

you keep using that word...

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by earnesti on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @04:01PM (#27213738)
I use Bitcoin as payment for products and services all the time. I dont talk about it though, why would I? It is boring. I dont talk about how I use paypal or bank accounts to pay for stuff either.

There are certain segments eg. travel where bitcoin/crypto has worked well for years.

When I talk with friends about BTC, it is about price because that is the interesting part. The fact that I used it to pay for something is just not interesting.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by ilaksh on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:11PM (#27210593)
Well.. yes and no. A lot of people unfortunately never really understood the real concept of a cryptocurrency as a payment mechanism and instead believe they are for getting rich quick.

That's the business Coinbase is in.

Now, if you are using cryptocurrency for payments you don't need Coinbase.

PayPal, since you mention it, knows that cryptocurrency is going to make it's business model obsolete as soon as it is widely deployed. That is why they pretend to allow you to keep and use Bitcoin on their platform.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by sashimi-houdini on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @03:29PM (#27213280)
It used to be that enthusiasts could claim "currency of the future", but a lot of time has passed and that future simply hasn't come. In fact, Bitcoin's top utility is already far behind us.

Dropping "currency of the future" does come with the challenge of coming up with a new supposed benefit, which is where "store of value" comes in. Problem is: there is no inherent value in bitcoin.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by gverrilla on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @06:30PM (#27215359)
>a lot of time

not really

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by sashimi-houdini on Thursday May 20, 2021 @02:43AM (#27218127)
Just think what happened with PCs between 1975 and 1987... that's also 12 years
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by stjohnswarts on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:52PM (#27212008)
Yeah it's a value store. The only way it's not is if a nation state creates it and ties it to their currency. It's going to continue to go up and down forever.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by matheusmoreira on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:41PM (#27211082)
> It's not trying to be a PayPal.

Binance already has a credit card service that lets people use their cryptocurrency holdings to buy anything.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by i386 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @04:53PM (#27214339)
Binance has to be the most cringeworthy term of 2021
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by matheusmoreira on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @05:15PM (#27214540)
What? Binance isn't a term, it's a cryptocurrency exchange.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by arthurcolle on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @05:57PM (#27215048)
Binance is an exchange
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by asjdflakjsdf on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:48PM (#27211177)
Doge is picking up steam in that regard. It has so many problems though
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:06PM (#27210534)
USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more

People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work

No different than cellular reception in an underground subway, you dont have to think about it anymore

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by marcusverus on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:17PM (#27210683)
> USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more

Even these cryptos aren't being used as currencies per se. They're popular, sure, but they're popular because A) they allow traders to move funds between crypto 'investments' without converting to fiat (i.e. without triggering cap gains), and B) They allow investors to "avoid market volatility" (but in a manner far riskier than fiat, given that even DAI or USDT could go to zero tomorrow).

...but they're still not currencies. Nobody is buying a hamburger with DAI.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by nostrademons on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:22PM (#27210773)
If the trader is being honest, converting cryptocurrencies to stablecoins is a taxable event triggering capital gains. The IRS considers any exchange of one cryptocurrency for another to be a sale of a capital asset and purchase of another.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by erosenbe0 on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:59PM (#27212115)
Yes. They are assets and you must pay tax every time you swap them or even use them to make a purchase. It's like making a purchase with Apple stock or swapping Apple stock for Google stock. Pay tax.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by sizzle on Thursday May 20, 2021 @04:05AM (#27218627)
How will the government track and get their dues?
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Thursday May 20, 2021 @06:05AM (#27219316)
Typically they use account information from the exchanges and follow that onchain

But they generally rely on individuals to report accurately. Obviously wage-earners arent used to that as their employers withhold money for taxes and report to the IRS so this crowd may find this new found freedom to be foreign and a chance to “get away with” something, but everyone else has lived in a world where they report their taxes voluntarily and accurately

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by nikanj on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:24PM (#27210795)
I'd be very surprised if your tax agency agrees that moving via USDT does not trigger capital gains.

Then again, I'm operating under the impression most people cheat on their taxes w.r.t cryptos

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by koonsolo on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:09PM (#27211466)
US only. It seems even Puerto Rico doesn't ask capital gains on crypto.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by waych on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:40PM (#27211857)
IRS considers cryptocurrency as property, and exchanging one for another is a taxable event.

See "Q16. Will I recognize a gain or loss if I exchange my virtual currency for other property?" [1]:

   A16.  Yes.  If you exchange virtual currency held as a capital asset for other property, including for goods or for another virtual currency, you will recognize a capital gain or loss.  For more information on capital gains and capital losses, see Publication 544, Sales and Other Dispositions of Assets.
[1]: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq...
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by dgjnvhhb on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @09:03PM (#27216254)
Not if you move to Puerto Rico.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by prepend on Friday May 21, 2021 @08:30AM (#27233168)
I think that’s more a function of Puerto Rico not having federal taxes than anything about crypto (ie, no capital gains or income tax on anything, including crypto).
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by tastyfreeze on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:55PM (#27212058)
Like-kind exchange doesn't apply to cryptocurrencies. Exchanging BTC for a stablecoin does trigger capital gains as does selling a stablecoin for fiat. In the BTC-USDC scenario it is a little trickier to calculate the basis in USD but capital gains taxes still apply.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @04:02PM (#27213749)
It isnt tricker at all. Very simple math.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by tastyfreeze on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @05:38PM (#27214816)
Yes, if you record the USD value of both sides at the time of trade. If you only record the execution price of your BTC/USDT trade you will need to later find the price of BTC/USD and USDT/USD at the time of execution.

Trickier in the sense that it requires more attention than simply recording the execution price and fees of a BTC/USD trade.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @08:07PM (#27215946)
Most charting and accounting services do this for any time period if you need to look it up, or do it automatically

Only more annoying when you have to use an AMM’s info site and the chart isnt very granular or go back far enough. Pancakeswap’s info site doesnt even work.

So yes best to keep track at that exact time of trade

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:06PM (#27211445)
I’ve paid many people with stablecoins, even make in-kind investments (not like-kind)

You dont have a way of quantify if people are tax cheats (as what you described does not prevent capital gains liability), stores of value, or buying hamburgers

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by Animats on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:09PM (#27211474)
USDT is a concern, because it probably can't survive a big net outflow. Right now, dumping Bitcoin and buying, say, yuan is something a hedge fund might do. Or may have been doing over the last few weeks. What happens when some trader cashes out a few billion dollars in USDT to buy yuan? Coinbase has to wire transfer out that cash.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by kllrnohj on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:10PM (#27210582)
> People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work

Well that's not really true, it was headline news when Tesla started accepting crypto payments (and then headline news when they stopped).

Stores accepting crypto still makes the news, it's not common and not something that "just works." But what you can do is at least semi-reliably convert between crypto & things that stores do accept using the various conversions you listed. But you still do have to convert from crypto to a traditional currency to use it as a currency.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:21PM (#27211614)
There have been debit cards loaded with crypto for almost a decade now

Your fictional higher standard of currency would say that the euro is not a currency because my transferwise debit card converts it to dollars when I spend in the US

The peer to peer payment mechanism works and all crypto assets inherit that

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by cableshaft on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @12:10PM (#27210584)
Yep, used USDC just last night to buy a new computer, just before this big crash happened, thankfully (since I converted some crypto to do it). Actually using that for its intended purpose.
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by zaphar on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:47PM (#27211946)
That's like saying I payed for my new house with stocks. Which is not the same thing as stocks being a currency. What actually happened is that you liquidated some crypto and used the proceeds to buy your new computer. You even say that directly in your parenthetical. (since I converted some crypto to do it)
Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by cableshaft on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @04:20PM (#27213962)
I converted from one form of cryptocurrency to another cryptocurrency (USDC is USDCoin, a Stablecoin).

I was paying on NewEgg using their BitPay method, which supports payment with only the following cryptocurrencies: Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum, Wrapped Bitcoin, Dogecoin, and 5 stablecoins (GUSD, USDC, PAX, DAI, and BUSD).

I have Bitcoin and could have paid directly with that, but I wanted to keep holding it and pay with Litecoin. So I converted that to USDC (for free, but I will have to pay taxes on the gains next year since every conversion or purchase is a taxable event in crypto in the US), and then sent that to Bitpay.

So yes, I still maintain I used USDC for its intended purpose.

I did, however, do what you said and liquidated some Ethereum to fiat several years ago (right at the previous bull run's top, by happenstance, got super lucky then) to pay for the downpayment on my home. I would have paid with it directly if I could but there was just no mechanism for it, at least not back then.

Re:Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip by vmception on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:09PM (#27211475)
No didn't you read all the other comments, that didn't happen because nobody uses them as currencies, or it didnt happen because either the payment processor, merchant, or their daycare provider eventually converted to the state’s local fiat currency so your experience is invalid /s