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Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @06:05PM (#27201897)
Why is it “not useful” to opt out of the inflationary issuance of major government currencies?
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by trainsplanes on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @06:20PM (#27202036)
You’re not opting out of anything. At the end of the day, everyone is trading their crypto for dollars or another government currency.

Crypto is opting out of real money is the same way buying an unstable stock is. People are buying it hoping to get rich and convincing others to do the same, hoping they’ll sell it off before the price crashes and it’s completely worthless. Nobody is buying milk and eggs with GameStop stocks or *coins, and if they did, it’d make international news and that singular event would be referenced for 5 years by supporters as an example of how “real” their currency is.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @06:38PM (#27202181)
> Crypto is opting out of real money is the same way buying an unstable stock is

Cryptocurrencies are indeed traded like meme stocks — their value is 100% based on narrative. The difference is meme stocks can’t be electronically transacted sans trusted third parties, which if you recall from the 2009 Satoshi paper, is the entire point of Bitcoin.

(There are other benefits to having a global currency of fixed supply controlled by computer algorithms, e.g. transparent supply metrics.)

> hoping they’ll sell it off before the price crashes and it’s completely worthless

What are the holders of Bitcoin supposed to sell it for, exactly? USD is being inflated. The stock market is insane. Housing is insane and comes with tax and maintenance liabilities virtually everywhere. Artwork is physical and illiquid. Government debt is increasingly dubious.

It would take governments becoming fiscally responsible and a return to a gold standard for Bitcoin to become less societally relevant. And even then, gold and gold-backed government monies would suffer from transparency issues and not being able to be electronically transacted sans trusted third parties.

I’m afraid there’s really just no good news here for people who refuse to invest in Bitcoin on general principle.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by Apocryphon on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:48PM (#27202815)
I think the point is that at present the majority of cryptocurrency usage is in investment, trading, and hoarding- speculation as opposed to actually using it as a currency for everyday transactions.
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @08:20PM (#27203074)
> I think the point is that at present the majority of cryptocurrency usage is in investment, trading, and hoarding- speculation as opposed to actually using it as a currency for everyday transactions.

Which is in practice really no different from meme stocks today.

Meme stocks which are only transactable via trusted third parties and are inherently trapped inside the walled gardens of various centralized brokerage firms.

Conversely, Bitcoin can be self-custodied with FOSS, and is trivially spendable via TTPs and L2 protocols. But yes, in practice people are using cryptocurrencies as speculative stores of value almost exclusively.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by trainsplanes on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @01:31AM (#27204927)
> Which is in practice really no different from meme stocks today.

Which is exactly my point.

Crypto is a decentralized meme stock. Unless crypto finds a way to become just a normal currency, it'll go the way of all memes over time: dead, once everyone and their grandma is sharing it.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @04:16AM (#27205886)
> Crypto is a decentralized meme stock

Yes — insofar as cryptocurrency market valuation is based entirely on narrative.

No — in terms of it being possible to spend and store bitcoin sans trusted third parties.

(E.g. a Chilean real estate project developer — a Canadian expat without Chilean residency — once explained to me he had no choice but to use bitcoin in SA because the banks there refused to process his company’s regular large wire transfers.)

Bitcoin is in fact a bearer instrument, regardless of your beliefs about its credibility. How many national currencies are bearer instruments also without credibility in your eyes, for instance, and where does Bitcoin rank on that list?

> Unless crypto finds a way to become just a normal currency, it'll go the way of all memes over time: dead, once everyone and their grandma is sharing it.

That’s a narrative no better than any other which gets fielded every day on the crypto markets, although the benefactor of it is unclear to me. Cash and cryptocurrency are incredibly liquid compared to competing PMs and real estate. The S&P is down since 1970 when measured in gold, and central banks are racing to inflate fiat currencies.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by jollybean on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:09PM (#27202475)
If you think that buying into an MLM Ponzi Scheme is a good hedge against inflation, all the power to you.

But in the long run, it's not.

There are no cryptos which effectively server as either currencies or good stores of value. There are always many better alternatives in both cases.

If you want to opt out of currency - that's rational - you can buy land, low-overhead ETFs, indexes, bonds, gold, other currencies, Gold, commodities, and all of the above.

Consider the obvious problem with your stated benefits of crypto: for every supposed benefit, there are already other, better solutions.

The only thing crypto can do, that others cannot, is make you rich, quickly, by doing nothing, by getting others in to the pyramid.

In the long run, crypto has a role, but there's no crypto on the horizon that's really useful. Some day.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:23PM (#27202610)
Meme stock drum beating over social media isn’t the same thing as MLM.

What’s the average PE ratio up to now on the S&P?

Land, where? Real estate is just as inflated as the stock market if not moreso; it also comes with a tax liability at minimum, and is far less liquid than equities, cash and cryptos.

PMs are no different from cryptocurrency in any meaningful respect, and are actively worse on many fronts — e.g. where do you custody it, how do you verify it, how do you exchange it easily, how do you prevent it from being seized or stolen.

Look, there’s a reason humans invented fiat currency. It would just be better if that currency were A) global, B) of fixed supply, and C) controlled by computer algorithms instead of political institutions.

> Consider the obvious problem with your stated benefits of crypto: for every supposed benefit, there are already other, better solutions.

That’s mostly true of non-money — read: non-bearer asset — use cases, like those epitomized by Ethereum and its many competitors.

Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by randomhodler84 on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @08:55PM (#27203324)
Now don’t you see that of all the alternatives you offered (stock, land, gold…) all require some degree of state interaction, or non-portability. Bitcoin is weightless. Easy to move. Trustless. Not dependent on any state or monetary system. It is this portability, trustlessness and independence from the state, and even lack of interaction with traditional financial organizations is what provides value.
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by triceratops on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @11:48PM (#27204289)
Why is the price of BTC given in US dollars? Is it really that independent of "major government currencies"?
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by j0ba on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @03:06AM (#27205502)
Because people like you wouldn't understand if I said, "I'm just giving my two sats."
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by Qwertious on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:56PM (#27202885)
You can do that by buying gold, or frankly buying any stock on the market.
Re:Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge by atweiden on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @08:13PM (#27203021)
The S&P is actually down since 1970 as measured in gold. Gold is strictly worse than Bitcoin on every front save for its ability to be used offline.

(But even offline, gold transactions would require a great deal of care wrt anti-counterfeiting, and this is an edge case given gold’s primary use is as a speculative store of value.)