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Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by ucha on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @11:57AM (#27196424)
The public underestimates the huge efforts that have been accomplished to prevent tax evasion in the last few years.

FATCA forces all signatories to report US tax payer info to the IRS no matter the country in which they have a bank account.

CRS signatories do the same thing for pretty much every country in the world and automatically exchange bank account information with the tax office of one's country of residence.

Pretty much every offshore center requires identification of the UBO - Ultimate Beneficial Owner - of any tax structure in place.

It's so so so much harder to open a bank account in a country in which one is not resident because the US has a very long reaching arm and frequently punishes sanctions banks or entire countries for failing to have proper anti-money laundering controls in place. Yes, banks can be fined, not because money laundering took place but just because the regulator decided that the controls in place are not sufficient.

Where does that leave us? On one hand, tax evasion is much harder. On the other, money has become a system of control. The government knows by default who has how much in their bank account. Banks are deputised with government powers and can lock your account merely on suspicion of a fraudulent transaction. When they freeze your funds, they are legally prohibited from telling you why. You essentially don't own your money and there is no due process to have it seized. Developing countries are pretty much excluded from the modern financial system. It's close to impossible to process financial transactions if you're a software developer trying to sell your products but have the misfortune of living in Nigeria or Cuba.

It's a modern aberration that the internet is so free yet the financial system isn't at all but most people in developed countries aren't affected by this so they simply don't care. What's the point of crypto when I can use venmo, right?

[edit] typo

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by kccqzy on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @12:22PM (#27196949)
> FACTA forces all signatories to report US tax payer info to the IRS no matter the country in which they have a bank account.

I think you are referring to FATCA, not FACTA. FATCA is Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act. FACTA is Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by JKCalhoun on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @12:27PM (#27197068)
> Pretty much every offshore center…

Not a tax expert, just a layman, but my understanding is that all it takes is one offshore center....

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by ucha on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @12:53PM (#27197509)
It's close to impossible to get a bank account in less reputable offshore jurisdictions which limits their use to holding physical assets or IP etc...

The not so funny part, is that the US isn't a member of CRS to they don't automatically send bank account of foreign citizens to their countries of residence. Major offshore centers aren't always where you expect them to be.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by merpnderp on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:04PM (#27197677)
And look at all the support for banning cryptocurrencies we see. The one way to sidestep the insanity of the modern financial system all of a sudden has massive support to shut it down. Arguing that to save poor people from CO2 we must perpetuate financial systems which impoverish them forever.

Wonder how hard it was to get people to fixate on cryptocurrency's energy usage vs youtube's, instagrams, or netflix's?

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by tomtheelder on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:36PM (#27198209)
The idea that crypto would be a boon for the lower classes seems to me to be extremely dubious. Probably my single biggest concern about crypto is how much power it would shift away from governments and into the hands of the wealthy.
Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by CrazyPyroLinux on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:58PM (#27198522)
> "that crypto would be a boon for the lower classes seems to me to be extremely dubious"

Why? The lower classes are the most vulnerable to inflation. And even the poorest have cell phones these days. See TXT-banking in Africa. Or this example with Bitcoin: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/07/14/this-...

> "it would shift [power] away from governments and into the hands of the wealthy"

You repeat yourself. ;) There are certainly risks - 51% attacks, etc. I don't know if crypto is the whole answer or maybe part of it, but when you consider how much the current financial systems are controlled and rigged, it's hard for me to see crypto as not an improvement for the common people.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by imtringued on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:19PM (#27202569)
>The lower classes are the most vulnerable to inflation.

The lower classes spend most of their income and accumulate very little savings and even if they do, those savings will not generate enough returns to replace their job, if the latter were possible they would not be lower classes by definition.

Really there is only one benefit that Bitcoin brings and that is the ability to "strike" and force central banks to set interest rates properly e.g. the threat of competition keeps everyone honest.

Also, Bitcoin is going down very quickly. Considering the recent rise in inflation I wouldn't want to hold onto Bitcoin if my goal was to get ahead of inflation. The volatility completely drowns out inflation. You may have to hold onto your Bitcoin for years and hope for a recovery.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by merpnderp on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @02:13PM (#27198750)
Is that why it is such a huge hit in Venezuela and other high inflation countries? Because poor people are playing into the hands of the powerful and not because it gives them a stable way to store wealth and trade with people in other countries?

Sorry for my tone, but it rubs me raw when people casually discount the plight of the poor with do-gooder polices that make people's lives even harder, all while ignoring actual evidence.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by imtringued on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @07:37PM (#27202724)
Let me tell you about the mechanism.

There is this theoretical construct called the world interest rate and it refers to the average real interest rate. Any country whose real interest rate is above the world interest rate will receive capital inflows and any country whose real interest rate is below the world interest rate will have capital outflows.

So the goal is to get as close to the world interest rate as possible or even exceed it slightly.

Therefore if the world interest rate is 2% and you have 8000% inflation per year, the interest rate must be 8002% (oversimplified) so that the real interest rate becomes 2%.

Bitcoin is just another currency and since it is not generating any returns it should closely track the world interest rate like gold does because when you are buying gold or Bitcoin, you are betting that the world economy will continue to exist in the future.

The ability to exchange Venezuelan money is just a way to obtain access to the world interest rate without interference of the government and usually that is a good thing, not because governments shouldn't be trusted with your money, no it's because bad governments can't access it but ultimately you are hoping that your government becomes good again or you move to a different country where the government is less corrupt, because it is a non goal to organize an economy with Bitcoin.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by Fauntleroy on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:24PM (#27197997)
And how exactly will cryptocurrency benefit those impoverished by the current system? As is it stands, the only way to reap any benefits is to become an early investor, or to have the capital on hand to purchase the computing resources necessary to "mine" them.
Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by ucha on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:45PM (#27198336)
My company has remote employees in a 3rd world country who prefer to be paid in crypto rather than on their bank account. Resident nationals are prohibited from owning foreign bank accounts. The value of freely convertible currency is 80% overstated by their central bank. If I pay them in the local currency, they lose 45% of the value of their labor to a corrupt government.
Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by CrazyPyroLinux on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @01:59PM (#27198530)
> they lose 45% of the value of their labor to a corrupt government

That sounds like income taxes. :)

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by lazide on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @03:32PM (#27199852)
At least you get a receipt when you pay your taxes I guess?

One challenge with inflation is how hard it is to measure and how it impacts different parts of the economy differently. If you’re buying chickens, it might be impacting you 20% or 100%, houses the same range but differently, etc. taxes at least are usually published and more knowable/can be planned around.

Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by ucha on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @03:45PM (#27200031)
I'd say more like a tariff, because you pay a 80% tax when you buy foreign goods (or pay an 80% tax when a foreigner sells good to locals).
Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by merpnderp on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @02:15PM (#27198782)
Taxes - inflation, potato - potato.
Re:Tax Evasion at the Top of the Income Distribution: Theory... by jollybean on Tuesday May 18, 2021 @04:54PM (#27200956)
The notion that these anti-money laundering schemes and otherwise regular financial transactions are 'oppressive' is not only false, it's upside down.

'Poverty' is a system without trust, justice or regulatory oversight - that is a system of 'power by thuggery'.

The reason Singapore and Hong Kong flourished is because they had objective commercial law, you could put your money in a bank and know it wasn't going to be stolen. You could make business claims against others in court, instead of having to hire gunboats.

A rigorous financial system is a foundation of civility, not an oppression.

If we want to 'improve' we can look at remove VISA/MC monopolies, platform monopolies (Apple etc.), and of course reduce fictionalization of the economy by the Fed ...

... but good luck with the later, as those receiving a 'tiny bit of free money' from the government have difficulty realizing that they are actually being duped by the fact that everyone higher than them on the ladder is getting 'even more free money from the government' and that their ostensibly handouts are going to get more than eaten up by inflation of various kinds.

There is no magical solution to our problems, we need to more pragmatic and intelligent - there's nothing in the domain of crypto that's fundamentally going to change the equation other than as minor tool in support of something more broad and pragmatic.