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Re:Notion API – public beta by robbiemitchell on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:53PM (#27146553)
Even pretty established players like Asana don't offer on prem.

Curious what you'd be willing to pay for this, as it's exclusively an enterprise feature. My guess is an absolute minimum of $50k/year contract value, or 250-350 users at an enterprise per-seat price (just guessing).

Aside from going fully on prem, the idea of strictly dedicated storage is interesting -- like "bring your own S3 bucket" simplicity. I don't see that often outside of $10 desktop apps.

Re:Notion API – public beta by polote on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:07PM (#27147491)
Even if the offer is appealing, this is unlikely to happen. Confluence who used to offer it, has stopped and soon everyone would need to use the cloud version. The thing is that for a collaborative tool like Notion (and others) being Saas, and in the cloud is kind of mandatory. As you need your tool to integrate with other services and thus, can't be static.

The only possibility left is "dedicated storage". That works for static ressources. But the `page` content itself is dynamic and changes often, so you will need more than "bring your own S3" and something like "bring your rds" but that starts to be pretty complicated. Quip though still offer on prem AFAIK.

At the end of the day, the issue with collaborative tools, is that you can't e2e encrypt easily, and almost impossible if you offer full text search. The best solution is to trust your provider for data security. And use maybe some daily backups in your own network.

Re:Notion API – public beta by nonameiguess on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:20PM (#27148219)
Atlassian tools still offer on-prem, but you need a data center license now and they doubled the price of that. Unfortunate, but they'd be losing some huge customers that cannot run in the cloud not just as a matter of policy but technology. The entire IC developer platform is using the Atlassian suite, for instance, but on JWICS, a classified network with no connectivity to Atlassian's cloud.

What's going to end up happening if more vendors decide you can only use their service from their cloud is the largest enterprises and governments are going to exclusively use Microsoft and AWS since they're more than willing to just build you your own cloud that meets whatever security and disconnection requirements you have, no matter how stringent. Already no new government projects that still have a choice are going with Atlassian tooling.

We'll see how it goes for them, I guess. Maybe they don't need governments and Fortune 500s and can get by selling exclusively to startups with no real security or lock-in avoidance requirements.

Re:Notion API – public beta by LilBytes on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:18AM (#27151988)
Well, the comment still stands. You can't /reasonably/ deploy Confluence on premise any more when weighing up the cost feasibility of using the on premise service for Data Centre vs Server.

The idea of using their cloud service (Atlassians) wouldn't be that daunting if it wasn't for the consistent feed back I see here and else where that performantly, it absolutely sucks.

Re:Notion API – public beta by iampims on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:17PM (#27148188)
Backup to s3 every N hours sounds like a good trade off.
Re:Notion API – public beta by chrisweekly on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:24PM (#27146933)
You're right about Asana -- but it's worth noting that RoamResearch ($100/yr) offers private, offline dbs, and Roam's OSS "vassal" app (ie, clone) AthensResearch is self-hosted and free-as-in-beer.
Re:Notion API – public beta by FlashBlaze on Friday May 14, 2021 @12:14AM (#27150632)
Logseq https://github.com/logseq/logseq is also a good OSS alternative and they're also working on collaborative feature I believe.
Re:Notion API – public beta by boraoztunc on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:16PM (#27148179)
Obsidian (https://obsidian.md) also offers offline, + for free.
Re:Notion API – public beta by rattray on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:45PM (#27148434)
Are either Roam or Obsidian collaborative?
Re:Notion API – public beta by boraoztunc on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:18PM (#27169828)
Not sure about Roam, I've been using Obsidian, and my purpose is for personal, making note archive offline. So never had any need for collaboration. But with Sync and Publish features, maybe there is a possibility.
Re:Notion API – public beta by hokumguru on Thursday May 13, 2021 @09:43PM (#27149687)
Roam seems to be working on it. I’m unsure the status as I haven’t checked in a few months.
Re:Notion API – public beta by mbrock on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:23AM (#27153441)
I think Roam has been fully collaborative since the launch. The browser keeps the whole database in IndexedDB and syncs it continuously with a WebSocket streaming Datomic-style transactions.
Re:Notion API – public beta by chrisweekly on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:13AM (#27153372)
Roam: yes Obsidian: unsure (I think not)
Re:Notion API – public beta by dancemethis on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:58PM (#27148547)
Zero cost but not Free Software. Another untrustworthy thing like Notion.
Re:Notion API – public beta by benrbray on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:06AM (#27150908)
I'm most saddened by the people who spend their time writing plugins for Notion / Roam (and to a lesser degree, Obsidian), providing extra value for free to a non-free product that will profit off the free labor. (or rather, I'm saddened that companies like Roam are so willing to exploit community engagement for a profit)

Time would be better spent contributing to an open source alternative like Athens!

Re:Notion API – public beta by tangjeff0 on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:14PM (#27157738)
Thank Ben :)
Re:Notion API – public beta by FalconSensei on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:23PM (#27156987)
Roam's site[1] only mentions $165/yr. The 5 year plan is $500, but then... if you stop using it after a year, you would have paid $500 for 1 year of usage. If you're thinking of no lock-in, you need to see the monthly price, which is $15 month, way more expensive (for personal use) than anything notion has (free/$4/$8 per month)

[1]: https://roamresearch.com/

Re:Notion API – public beta by kachnuv_ocasek on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:31PM (#27147026)
> it's exclusively an enterprise feature

Are you suggesting privacy and data ownership concerns are only limited to enterprises?

Re:Notion API – public beta by gumby on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:37PM (#27147118)
I think it suggests that the support and SLA costs are higher in these situations.

These factors make sense to me. Note that Gitlab believes the opposite so on prem is also free.

Re:Notion API – public beta by TechBro8615 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:46PM (#27147225)
The support costs are a solvable problem. The challenge is architecting your stack to accommodate external storage, and delivering a usable experience to your users when they connect their resources.

It would be nice if AWS could deliver a smooth OAuth experience so that in a few clicks, a user could provision an S3 bucket and share it with a service provider as easily as they can grant access to a GitHub repository.

Re:Notion API – public beta by TechBro8615 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:18PM (#27146865)
> Even pretty established players like Asana don't offer on prem.

Sounds like an opportunity ;)

Starting or rearchitecting a project gives you the rare chance to make decisions that your competitors never even had available to them. You can leverage new tech to move faster, and you can learn from their mistakes to avoid their most costly traps.

“Bring your own S3 bucket” actually sounds pretty awesome and I wish more companies would do this. Everybody wants to be a middleman controlling the transaction, but they’re missing a whole class of customers by not offering self-directed storage options.

This is a great example of a decision Notion could make now, that Asana would have a hard time adapting to. As long as they’re rearchitecting, they should keep an eye out for opportunities like that.

As for how much I’d pay – if I’m the only party with access to my raw data, and I can run the software locally even if Notion goes out of business – for a team of 5-10, I would pay $50-75 per user per month.

Re:Notion API – public beta by chrisweekly on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:25PM (#27146959)
You might want to take a look at AthensResearch (free, self-hosted RoamResearch clone).
Re:Notion API – public beta by TechBro8615 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:27PM (#27146987)
Oh I have. Problem is Notion is most popular with the least technical people on our team. Migrating would be a hard sell.
Re:Notion API – public beta by jrcii2 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:48PM (#27147243)
This might be an interesting alternative: https://github.com/QingWei-Li/notea.

Open source Notion clone that you can host locally.

Re:Notion API – public beta by TobTobXX on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:09PM (#27147509)
Looks awesome, but it relies on an S3 (or compatible) backend, which I personally find too much of a hassle.
Re:Notion API – public beta by sbarre on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:39PM (#27147812)
Min.io[0] is pretty easy to set up, if you haven't heard of it, and is S3-compatible.

0: https://min.io/