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Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by phire on Thursday May 13, 2021 @02:43PM (#27145706)
Tesla might not have dumped.

But I'd be very interested to see Musk's personal trading accounts, and the trading accounts of his close associates.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by slg on Thursday May 13, 2021 @02:52PM (#27145821)
It is incredibly hard to imagine that the upside in Musk's personal Bitcoin stake, whatever it is, is anywhere close to approaching his personal stake in Tesla. Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock. It would be unbelievably stupid to jeopardize the value of the Tesla stock to pump up the value of his Bitcoin holdings.

Some of these anti-Musk conspiracy theories are truly crazy especially considering the man is so out there that you don't even need to fabricate weird theories like this to make him look bad.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by capableweb on Thursday May 13, 2021 @02:58PM (#27145904)
> It is incredibly hard to image that the upside in Musk's personal Bitcoin stake, whatever it is, is anywhere close to approaching his personal stake in Tesla. Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock. It would be unbelievably stupid to jeopardize the value of the Tesla stock to pump up the value of his Bitcoin holdings.

I think it's fair to suspect something here though, and question Musks behavior these last few years. Yes, originally he wanted to save the world with Tesla and also find a new world with SpaceX (at least that was the outspoken goals), but his current dealings that skirt on legality of things, gives another side of him.

Some people who seemed to be driven by the goodness of their heart ends up chasing the same money-dragon as many before them. It's not impossible.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by slg on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:03PM (#27145990)
I am not judging the goodness of his heart or whatever. I am simply stating that this theorized plan of him using Tesla as a pawn to increase the value of his Bitcoin holdings is both an idiotic plan and one that there is no evidence of actually existing. The only reason anyone would believe it is because they are forsaking critical thinking in favor of their bias against Musk that exists for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by dTal on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:07PM (#27146028)
>seemed to be driven by the goodness of their heart

...we are talking about Elon Musk, right? The one who got rich founding the definitely-ethical, not-at-all-shady company PayPal? That Elon Musk?

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by stjohnswarts on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:31PM (#27157972)
You can both want to change the world (as much as you can) and make money. They aren't mutually exclusive no matter what Marxists will tell you.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by Aperocky on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:32PM (#27147738)
> Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock.

That's why they're not actual net worth. They are not liquid and will almost never be.

Private pump and dump schemes generate real cash, that can be used.

Musk can never leverage his Tesla stocks to do anything useful near the theoretical amount he has. better get some real cash that can buy actual yachts.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by loulouxiv on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:02PM (#27145963)
Remember this guy tweeted "funds secured to make Tesla private at 420$ per share" to take revenge on Tesla shorters blaming him for smoking marijuana on TV
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by slg on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:12PM (#27146093)
You are equating a stupid in the heat of the moment Tweet by one person to a premeditated months long conspiracy by multiple people in Tesla's leadership. The two aren't equivalent.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by tessierashpool on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:30PM (#27147724)
It is incredibly hard to imagine that the upside in Musk's personal Bitcoin stake, whatever it is, is anywhere close to approaching his personal stake in Tesla. Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock. It would be unbelievably stupid to jeopardize the value of the Tesla stock to pump up the value of his Bitcoin holdings.

this is a good point, but if I held Tesla, I would probably prefer cash. it could be that Tesla's greatest value is as a prop for BTC scams.

Teslas catch on fire randomly. Their roofs fall off sometimes. Their self-driving tech doesn't work as well as people expect, and when people get that expectation wrong, it sometimes results in them dying. The bulk of the company's revenue comes from carbon credits.

maybe he's pumping and dumping Bitcoin because he doesn't expect his wealth to last, and if he sold a bunch of Tesla stock, people would notice. a little scam to set aside a nest egg just in case the other scam doesn't pan out.

the weaknesses in this argument are SpaceX and PayPal, so I'm not totally convinced of my own position here, but I haven't seen any good counterarguments otherwise.

he could also just find scams fun for their own sake.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by ecpottinger on Thursday May 13, 2021 @07:06PM (#27148614)
You better sell your GM stock then since that seems mostly to be happening to Bolts lately. Second thought, if you think people are dying driving in cars you better sell all car stocks.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by phire on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:44PM (#27146441)
Sure, his net-worth might be higher if this "tesla dabbling with bitcoin" never happened... but he made those tweets anyway, and any effects on tesla stock happened.

Maybe there was no master plan, but it would be a lot better for his personal net-worth if he went long/short on bitcoin before each tweet.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by robertlagrant on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:24PM (#27146944)
No it wouldn't. The best thing for his net worth is to make Tesla valuable, and holding loads of Bitcoin while saying Bitcoin's not great is not what you would do if that's your motivation.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by anonAndOn on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:33PM (#27147055)
> Something like 70% of his net worth is Tesla stock.

For now. Spacex is going to be the most valuable company on Earth and Mars.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by anonAndOn on Thursday May 13, 2021 @07:07PM (#27148626)
...expanding a bit, Spacex could be the first company domiciled off of the planet if/when they build a private space station. What tax laws apply to artificial satellites used as "HQ" these days?
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by staticman2 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @11:51PM (#27150502)
"For some people... Tesla is a religion."
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by anonAndOn on Friday May 14, 2021 @12:52PM (#27156485)
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

― Shel Silverstein

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by freeone3000 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:01PM (#27145948)
But did he jeapordize the value of his Tesla stock? At all? The price of Tesla stock is entirely disconnected from the worth of the company, and seems to be doing just fine.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by snotrockets on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:03PM (#27146689)
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by thedudeabides5 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:00PM (#27145935)
Or better yet, did they move into Dogecoin, which apparently uses a lot less energy. Setting up the inevitable 'use Doge instead, it's better for the environment'
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by snotrockets on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:09PM (#27146760)
Doesn't matter: considering that all cryptocurrencies have significant environmental impact, using them would force ESG-screening funds to drop the company.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by svachalek on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:26PM (#27146977)
Bitcoin is deliberately inefficient to a horrifying degree but it is not "all cryptocurrencies". Most modern designs are thousands or millions of times more efficient.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by mavhc on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:49PM (#27147931)
And thus worth 1000s to 100000s of times less money. Bitcoin is about turning electricity into bits, the trick is the decreasing amount of bitcoin, thus get in at the base of the pyramid to make more money
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by snotrockets on Thursday May 13, 2021 @05:06PM (#27147469)
And even at that cost, they are are still an environmental disaster.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by FabHK on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:18AM (#27151985)
Does it use less energy intrinsically, or because it hasn't gone up enough yet, triggering more hashing with a concomitant increase in difficulty and energy use?
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by rawtxapp on Thursday May 13, 2021 @04:26PM (#27146970)
Yep, there were some big movements on the blockchain and the exchanges prior to the public tweet.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by dheera on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:49PM (#27148476)
Why does it matter? Manipulation is de facto legal in crypto, because no legal jurisdiction has absolute control of it, and people getting involved need to factor that in as a rule of the game and optimize their own strategies taking that into account.
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by smabie on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:42PM (#27146420)
Why would Musk fuck around with a personal trading account? He probably owns some coins personally, but it would be an insignificant fraction of his networth (which is tied to Tesla).

There's no conspiracy here.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Thursday May 13, 2021 @03:09PM (#27146055)
They may have bought more...
Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by novaRom on Thursday May 13, 2021 @02:47PM (#27145761)
This is why SEC department exists: sec.gov

Musk should be investigated, this is not the first time his actions lead to massive market perturbations.

Re:$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops a... by seunosewa on Thursday May 13, 2021 @06:35PM (#27148353)
I bet he is already being investigated. It is highly unlikely that regulators haven't noticed what he is up to.