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Re:Can I Email? by Grustaf on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:08AM (#27115899)
I wish people didn’t use html at all for emails…
Re:Can I Email? by jeroenhd on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:02AM (#27118223)
I'm fine with HTML myself, actually; it's stuff like CSS that I'm more worried about.

There are plenty of use cases for <li>/<h1>/<em> in emails, and with some nice default user styles they can give everyone a pleasant experience.

Sadly, CSS is often applied and the HTML people write is often broken.

Re:Can I Email? by Grustaf on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @12:29PM (#27120136)
You say that, but then a couple of times a month i get emails from a certain cultural society that for some reason always come out with the main text in one giant, one letter wide column… Both on the phone and outlook webmail!
Re:Can I Email? by simias on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @08:21AM (#27117182)
I still only send plaintext myself, but clearly that ship has sailed. Many mailers don't even bother adding a proper text/plain alternative anymore.

I caved in and replaced mutt with Thunderbird personally. Not only for properly displaying HTML, but it was a big reason. Thunderbird sucks massively for composing plain text emails though, and no simple way to integrate an external editor...

Re:Can I Email? by rauhl on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:40AM (#27117989)
> I caved in and replaced mutt with Thunderbird personally. Not only for properly displaying HTML, but it was a big reason. Thunderbird sucks massively for composing plain text emails though, and no simple way to integrate an external editor...

Have you considered emacs with notmuch and the Gnus renderer? It displays most HTML emails well, and when it doesn’t then a browser is just a quick ‘. b’ away. And of course there’s no need to integrate an external editor, because it’s integrated within the editor!

As a plus, it is simply amazing how quickly one can search local email.

Re:Can I Email? by ubermonkey on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:20AM (#27117736)
How would you support formatted text in email, then?

Please don't say "there shouldn't be formatted text in email." That's not a reasonable position.

Re:Can I Email? by Grustaf on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @12:15PM (#27119943)
I’m not saying it’s reasonable, I’m just saying I would prefer it. I also would prefer websites without ads and social networks without arbitrary “community rules” but it’s not going to happen.
Re:Can I Email? by rauhl on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:36AM (#27117945)
> How would you support formatted text in email, then?

RFC 1896 specifies text/enriched: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1896

And of course nowadays there is Markdown, which basically codifies a lot of earlier plain-text formatting conventions.

> Please don't say "there shouldn't be formatted text in email." That's not a reasonable position.

I don’t know about that, really. We got by fine with plain text messages for decades, and the formatting conventions were good enough to convey meaning and nuance.

Re:Can I Email? by ubermonkey on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:41AM (#27154194)
"We got by" is a bad argument.

Once email was in wide use by the general public, easy formatting was inevitable. HTML was everywhere, and so was the path of least resistance.

I thought it awful at the time, but "at the time" was literally more than two decades ago. HTML email is fine. MOST mail I get, professionally, has some formatting in it now. MOST mail I send probably does, too, to increase what a mentor of mine used to call "scan value."

Could I put all that in a Word doc and email THAT instead? Sure. But that would be a huge pain in the ass.

Re:Can I Email? by breakfastduck on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @09:55AM (#27118159)
We got by fine for thousands of years without computers at all
Re:Can I Email? by cezart on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @10:12AM (#27118320)
If by fine you mean the life style people had in the 12th century, I’ll pass and stick with computers..
Re:Can I Email? by breakfastduck on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:44PM (#27125018)
I was making the point that surviving without something in the past or currently is no reason not to improve it.
Re:Can I Email? by rauhl on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @07:42AM (#27129149)
Improvements are awesome! That’s why I linked to the text/enriched RFC. I really wonder if anyone who downvoted actually read it, or just emotionally reacted.

I don’t think that HTML emails are really an improvement: full-fledged HTML engines bring in too many opportunities for exploits and privacy loss. They definitely add capability, but at too high a cost IMHO.

In general, I think that our industry would benefit from asking ‘can we?’ less and instead asking ‘ought we?’ more.

Re:Can I Email? by breakfastduck on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:21PM (#27161090)
Can't argue with your final point at all.

However, my thread is more "can we do it differently?" instead of "maybe we shouldn't do it at all"

I agree, HTML isn't right for email.

Some different approach, possibly a markdown variant, with decent style support (basic css like background colours, fonts, like markdown themes in a code editor), why not explore that.

There's no reason emails need to be plain. RTF is a horrible format, markdown is much more prevalent and easy to make a simple UI formatter that obeys the standard for non technical users.

Re:Can I Email? by wiz21c on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:44AM (#27116870)
Yeah, receiving email in html format is painful. With text, I can look at them the way I want.
Re:Can I Email? by jesusjosephsson on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @08:54AM (#27117488)
I wish I could set up automatic replies to mails lacking plain text.
Re:Can I Email? by sleavey on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @07:41AM (#27116840)
First thing I do when I install Thunderbird on a new computer: disable HTML, enable monospace font.