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Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by jillesvangurp on Saturday May 08, 2021 @01:47AM (#27084287)
Great, I will eventually uninstall it when they make me. I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet. I have all three on my phone. Whatsapp usage has dropped a lot lately in my circle of friends. I removed Facebook Messenger ages ago (nobody I know uses that anymore). Just like the Facebook app and instagram. Whatsapp is the last bit of Facebook software on my phone.

I've been watching this corporate stupidity train wreck play out over the last few months. Every time I open whatsapp I get an obnoxious dialog urging me to pretty please accept their T&Cs. I click it away because I can. The fact that I can amuses me because it signals a certain amount of despair by Facebook. It's not normal for an app to be usable without accepting the terms and conditions.

The dilemma Facebook has is the very real problem that people are opting to uninstall rather than accept. Their users are angry and disgruntled. Which is why they are allowing people to use the app without accepting the terms and conditions. Which is of course highly unusual. From a legal point of view, until I agree, the old T&Cs apply. Basically they are saying those were actually fine and nothing really changed and it's all cosmetics but bla bla bla could you please accept the new ones anyway. It's a very weird position to take legally.

Either the old T&Cs were fine and there never was a reason to change them or the new ones materially change the old T&Cs and they should just state in plain language why and how. Instead we get this months long weaseling that is no doubt partially inspired by the fact that they are under a lot of scrutiny by authorities in the EU and US for privacy violations, monopolistic tendencies, data leaks, etc. The real issue is that the new T&Cs are of course designed to carve out some legal wiggle room there for Facebook to do user hostile things like ads and tracking. So they are in fact a change and they need users to swallow that.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by jstummbillig on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:08AM (#27084685)
> Great, I will eventually uninstall it when they make me.

1) It's likely you won't because of 2)

> I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet.

2) The likeliest moment for that to happen has passed, so that might just not happen. Biggest ancedotal indicator is prevailing usage in age group < 20

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by kseistrup on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:58AM (#27084954)
I ditched WhatsApp a few days ago.

I was mostly worried about friends in Asia and Africa, because phonecalls and SMSes will be prohibitively expensive, but my worries were unfounded: north'ard of 90% of my contacts have already migrated to Signal and WhatsApp — about fifty-fifty, as far as I can tell — so out went WhatsApp. No more Facebook apps for me, thanks.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by celticninja on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:18AM (#27085696)
Just out of curiousity, why do you write "northward" as "north'ard"? The contraction doesn't make sense as you are omitting one character to replace it with another. Is it to convey accent or is it common where you are to write it this way?
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by resoluteteeth on Saturday May 08, 2021 @07:31AM (#27086147)
> The contraction doesn't make sense as you are omitting one character to replace it with another.

Are you saying that it's pointless to replace the w with an apostrophe because the number of characters doesn't change? If so, this is not how contractions work. The point isn't to reduce the number of characters in writing, the point is to indicate in writing where letters have been omitted in the spoken pronunciation of the contraction.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by StavrosK on Saturday May 08, 2021 @07:37AM (#27086180)
> Are you saying that it's pointless to replace the w with an apostrophe because the number of characters doesn't change?

That is something very common, isnot it?

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by u801e on Saturday May 08, 2021 @04:01PM (#27090204)
Another common thing to do is replace the characters with something different:

  should have
  should've
  should of
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by celticninja on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:48AM (#27087087)
As I said elsewhere when I said convey accent, I meant pronunciation. So in that situation I understand it's use, I just hadn't heard it pronounced like that before.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by kseistrup on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:26AM (#27085733)
Haha, I guess I have sung this sea shanty too often: https://youtu.be/He7X5jGt8lY
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by kseistrup on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:50AM (#27085888)
— and I would like to add that in addition to omitted letters, the apostrophy can also indicate pronunciation (which is the case here).
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by specialist on Saturday May 08, 2021 @08:41AM (#27086619)
Huh. Your comments made me wonder if there are any English words, perhaps acknowledged in a dictionary, containing punctuation. A quick poking around suggests the answer is: no.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by ipaddr on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:37AM (#27087485)
I don't think that is true. Look at what your sentence fragment would be:

the a'os'rophy can al'o in'i'ate pro'nun'i'tion

If you leave out those letters you are omitting the important beginning sounds of each sylible. You generally want to highlight that sound and hide unnecessary characters.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by kseistrup on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:28PM (#27088547)
If you had taken the time to listen to the video, you would have heard that the 'w' in 'northward' was indeed omitted in the pronunciation as well as in the spelling.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by celticninja on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:25AM (#27086924)
I guess that is what I meant by conveying accent, but pronunciation is the correct term, evidently escaping me at the time.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by leephillips on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:35AM (#27086989)
Pretty awesome, that.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by annadane on Saturday May 08, 2021 @04:57AM (#27085228)
Why is this downvoted? The usual paid-to-brigade people coming in?
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by skinkestek on Saturday May 08, 2021 @07:09AM (#27086007)
No idea.

In your case it is probably because of name-calling.

Personally I usually don't downvote people for asking nicely why something was downvoted (when it isn't totally obvious) even if I know it is against the rules but the the moment name-calling starts any hesitation goes out the window.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by andybak on Saturday May 08, 2021 @05:51AM (#27085536)
I'm not paid and I just downvoted you because I really dislike this kind of comment.

It's unverifiable mud-slinging and your tone was brusque and dismissive.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by tinus_hn on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:15AM (#27085675)
It’s also complaining about downvotes which is explicitly against the rules.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by beermonster on Saturday May 08, 2021 @02:24AM (#27084457)
I keep WhatsApp around to reply to people that try to get hold of me there telling them that they can find me on Signal. I've made a few converts this way.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by italicbold on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:56AM (#27084941)
If you install whatsapp business you can setup an auto response to messages telling people you no longer use whatsapp and to switch to Signal.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by beermonster on Saturday May 08, 2021 @05:30AM (#27085418)
Nice. Thanks for that useful tip.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by throwaway82003 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:05AM (#27085615)
But I think the new policy changes allow WhatsApp to read business messages. So be weary. Also I think you gotta accept the new terms to have WhatsApp Business.

There's Watomatic. Author claims it doesn't connect to internet even though it has full network access permission, so idk about it. But the code is FOSS. It's on fdroid too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26153963

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by dallamaneni on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:33PM (#27107869)
> Author claims it doesn't connect to internet even though it has full network access permission

Hi! Watomatic developer here. The newer version does access internet (Github API) for following reasons: - To show release notes in the app - (in works) To warn users about outdated versions. This is an issue esp in the non Google Play landscape. - (in works) To show recent contributors list in the About section ...

Having access to internet made lots of things easy so thought that was a pragmatic choice :)

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by herbst on Saturday May 08, 2021 @04:53AM (#27085211)
So while you wait for others to switch you decided to be further part of the problem? For some reason I don't get the logic
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by ipaddr on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:25AM (#27087398)
You accepting the new terms was never really important. It is an extra legal protection.

You gave them the right to change your agreement when you first signed up. Agree or don't agree, in the end they will collect and use your content however they please.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by orangepanda on Saturday May 08, 2021 @02:57AM (#27084630)
> I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet

Or dont. If it's important enough, they'll find a way to contact you.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by techsupporter on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:20AM (#27084757)
To me, this is an example of why individual and collective action on gigantic things, like climate change or privacy, are both important.

I salute everyone here who is able to switch away from WhatsApp. I wish I could dump it as well, but I can't.

Why? I volunteer with a group where one of our main things is to have a small army of people out doing coordinated-but-physically-separated tasks. Everyone has a smartphone of some kind but they're of varying types and quality. We tried using group SMS but that was a disaster, as group-SMS is bad enough but group-SMS-with-30-people is one level below "just fax everybody."

WhatsApp, meanwhile, lets us make daily groups, have a QR code that volunteers can scan at check in to join the day's group, app versions that work on the shittiest Android phone all the way up to the brand newest iPhone. And as a bonus, since almost all of our volunteers have friends and family outside the US, pretty much everybody already has Whatsapp installed and knows how to use it.

The one time our Executive Director tried switching apps, I had to spend an hour talking him out of WeChat, of all things. Point being, we need individual action to pressure our friends and family groups along with regulatory action so that massive platforms can't abuse us like this.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by mahnouel on Saturday May 08, 2021 @05:39AM (#27085465)
Telegram might be worth a try. Also has the ability to join a group via Links (which also means QR Codes would work). There are a lot of options to manage groups, and even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by MertsA on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:50AM (#27085889)
>even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp

By default Telegram doesn't even do E2EE, you're 100% trusting them not to read your messages unless you start a secret chat. In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp?

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by skinkestek on Saturday May 08, 2021 @07:16AM (#27086059)
> In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp?

Firstly mahnouel didn't write "more secure" but better.

Secondly: if backups are enabled WhatsApp at anyone of the group members then WhatsApp is automatically uploading unencrypted copies of the group chats to Google.

I'd say that brings WhatsApp security for groups down to Telegram level at least.

Thirdly: forcing others to use WhatsApp to be part of the group gives away their group affiliation to Facebook. This might or might not be a problem for you.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by MomoXenosaga on Saturday May 08, 2021 @10:22AM (#27087372)
Every app eventually turns evil. I'm too cynical to believe telegram or signal aren't going to cash in.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by robjan on Sunday May 09, 2021 @12:12AM (#27093166)
Signal has already implemented some cryptocurrency which the founder of the foundation has an unknown and undisclosed level of investment in.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by growse on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:33AM (#27085783)
Joining a group with a URL isn't unique to Telegram. Signal certainly supports it, and I think a few other platforms do too.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by hiq on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:26AM (#27084781)
Was there anything specific that prevented you from switching to Signal?
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by techsupporter on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:33AM (#27084831)
At the time, joining groups in Signal was an involved process and the friction was higher than "a volunteer lead stands at the check-in desk and shows the QR code to each volunteer as they arrive for the day." Plus, most people didn't have Signal installed; almost everyone, and realistically the "almost" doesn't apply any more, has WhatsApp.

Signal's new groups work much more akin to WhatsApp and maybe I can bring it back up again once the pandemic has fully subsided.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by DyslexicAtheist on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:43AM (#27084878)
that's been my approach (meanwhile years ago). People never said it to my face but I'm pretty sure they thought I was strange. The only effect it had on me was missing out on spammy gossip group chats which filled my phone with memes and annoying notifications of people's micro-emotions that they felt I needed to somehow be part of.

When I now meet these people IRL they seem often very happy for being able to break news to me. Not being in the loop added quality to my friendships and I'm also genuinely happy to meet somebody because "it's been ages". Have created the same rule with my partner some years ago and we do not text each other little updates during the day so that we can have "quality time" in the evening which we always look forward to. It felt weird at first because nobody else does this, but it helped us carving out "us time" in which there is always something interesting we can share (e.g. "delayed gratification"[1] is grossly underrated in our time)

Most friends have meanwhile switched to Signal so I'm now more in the loop than 2 years ago. Though I never bring it with me when I leave the house so making an appointment with me and cancelling on last minute will be a problem (one I actively want to have - as strange at it sounds). Also I bring respect to any IRL conversations by _not_ having the chance fiddling with my phone. (I don't demand the same courtesy from my peers but I like tho think as of leading by example). So my mobile is a landline that uses radio :-)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by asiachick on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:55PM (#27088816)
I get that people don't like facebook but what's wrong with FB Messenger? For me I use it about 98% of the time. I does not require my phone number or access to my contact list, unlike many other messaging apps. It easily accessible on all of my laptops and desktops at messenger.com, no stupid "must login via QR code on only one device at a time BS". Also no app required on desktop (I trust the browser's security more than native apps on desktop)

It's also accessible across multiple phones if I decide to use a different phone. I have 2 with different sims and so sometimes, especially when traveling, use the other phone.

It supports groups just fine.

Also I've had almost no issue using it for audio or video calls.

I detest Line, and I detest WhatsApp. I only use them for a few friends who prefer them.

Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by 14 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @01:15PM (#27088990)
FB messenger = Facebook. If people don’t like Facebook then they by default don’t like the messenger app it created because that is another method to suck up all your data and personal information. They read what you wrote and if you say send something they deem offensive will have your account permanently deleted. Hard pass as a daily messenger service.
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by PicassoCTs on Saturday May 08, 2021 @09:42AM (#27087035)
Stupid Question: So if i have macros on my phone, that activate on opening whatsapp, i could auto-decline?
Re:WhatsApp will progressively kill features until users acc... by YeGoblynQueenne on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:51AM (#27085903)
>> Which is why they are allowing people to use the app without accepting the terms and conditions.

Are they? For a couple of months now when I try to see my messages I am asked to "Agree" with their terms and there's no way to go past that screen that I can see, other than pressing "Agree".

I'm in a weird position though: I'm an EU citizen with a UK number. So I'm not even sure the GDPR covers me proper. If I understand correctly, under the GDPR I should be given an option to not "Agree" and still continue to my messages.