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Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Friday May 07, 2021 @06:02PM (#27081354)
I don't know how to teach math, but I know how not to teach math.

1. Don't teach that math is a "ladder". Trigonometry is not "harder" than geometry, although many concepts in trigonometry are expressed as geometry. Calculus is not "harder" than algebra, although many concepts in calculus are indeed expressed as algebra. Teaching that math is a ladder allows people to believe that once they've covered the "basics" of a field of math (as if you could ever learn all of "algebra"), they shouldn't have to think about the basics again. Try telling a pianist that once they've learned a set of scales they don't need to study them any more, or try telling Richard Feynman that once he understood the standard atomic model there was no need to continue examining it in greater depth.

2. Don't teach that math was "discovered" in its current form. What most students think of when they think "math" is in fact western notation for patterns observed in reality, handed down by a bored teacher as universal law. A sheet full of squiggles isn't "math", it's just a set of the most-predictable and best-notated patterns made up by past mathematicians. "Math" is the process of discovering and refining those squiggles. The relationship between the length of the two perpendicular sides of a right triangle and the hypotenuse exists outside of human knowledge, but the Pythagorean Theorem is a only a certain method for expressing that relationship. The numbers 1 through 9 are one possible code for counting, but the quantities I through IIIIIIIIII and onward exist outside of the notation of Arabic numerals.

3. Don't immediately move on from concepts once a student has mastered them. Imagine if every time you figured out how to do your job correctly, your boss moved you to a completely new task requiring a completely new set of skills, giving you no time to enjoy applying your prior mastery. If you've just learned how to factor quadratic equations, why move on? Why not explore programs that factor equations? Why not dig up old exams and show how factoring would have solved earlier problems faster? This is always met with cries of "but they're supposed to use what they've learned to go on to even harder problems!" Sure, I agree, but how can you possibly enjoy any task if the only thing you can really expect is that even if you master your task, you'll be struggling again within the week? Would you join a rec basketball team if every time you started hitting three-pointers consistently, they moved the rim higher and farther away without giving you any time to feel what it's like to be good at basketball?

4. Don't teach that you need to know math because your grades have to be high. For nearly every profession available, grades are immediately forgotten as soon as you start receiving wages. Teach that you need to know math because the world is constructed and controlled by mathematicians and those acting on the advice of mathematicians. If you don't know math you'll be taken advantage of by those who do, whether it's in advertising, gambling, banking, medicine, insurance, politics, entertainment, engineering, programming, or any of the many other fields driven entirely by math.

Of course, not teaching those four lessons becomes difficult, because those lessons work in opposition to the central tenets of mandatory state education, which necessarily operates as a giant brainwashing factory working to justify its own existence. Modern ediucators spend most of their time trying as hard as they can to teach people that knowledge is best bestowed by authority and then proven through certificates, that various fields of inquiry exist separately from one another (for instance, that physics and biology can or should be studied independently of history, mathematics, grammar, semantics, or art), and that failure to live up to expectations must necessarily lead to shame and corrective action.

Don't send your kids to school if you can avoid it.

Re:How to Teach Math? by this-pony on Friday May 07, 2021 @07:08PM (#27081828)
I think maybe you mean "don't send your kids to an _American_ school if you can avoid it". Although I have no personal experience with the American school system, I would say that there are many schools in the world that adhere, to some degree, to your 'how not to teach mathematics'. I went to a public school in Europe and have had plenty of enthusiastic teachers that also tried to deliver the beauty of mathematics.
Re:How to Teach Math? by rsj_hn on Friday May 07, 2021 @07:17PM (#27081905)
Russia has an amazing math education tradition. I always recommend Russian math books and Russian math programs. They are excellent.
Re:How to Teach Math? by geomark on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:56PM (#27083351)
Any titles you can recommend?

I'm homeschooling my kid and have been using sample problems from both Russian and Singapore math. But I only have a single source for Russian math problems, which is a pdf of a paper by a Russian educator who taught in the US and then wrote a paper comparing the two educational systems.

It's interesting because he talks about how algebra is a big scary subject that is introduced late in the American system, while in Russia they start doing algebraic-type problems early in primary but they are solved with pictures. So when algebraic notation is introduced later it's just a next step to the types of problems that students have already been solving.

Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:10AM (#27083764)
If you don't already have it, "Thinking Physics" by Lewis Carroll Epstein is very good.

Also: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~abhishek/chicmath.htm Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18360071

Re:How to Teach Math? by geomark on Saturday May 08, 2021 @07:18AM (#27086070)
"Thinking of Physics" is pretty great. Thanks for the rec.
Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:11PM (#27082682)
Every Russian and ex-Soviet I've ever met was extremely proud of their school system, which arose from the Soviet system.
Re:How to Teach Math? by rsj_hn on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:23PM (#27082746)
They really did a great job at math. The humanities were terrible, it was hopelessly politicized. But if you didn't want to deal with constant lectures about the struggles of the working classes, or constant coursework on marxism-leninism, you studied math or physics, or engineering. It helped, of course, that the government had as a national policy the promotion of STEM. But they did an amazing job at it, and produced a fantastic crop of world-changing talent.
Re:How to Teach Math? by geomark on Friday May 07, 2021 @11:01PM (#27083390)
What a great approach. The easy social studies courses are made so horribly boring that it drives students to study the hard sciences.
Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:14PM (#27082704)
I just don't think that a classroom can possibly match the free-form, consequential education that comes from serious one-on-one time with a skilled, productive adult performing a consequential task. It is extremely likely that European schools are much better teaching math than American schools are, and I admit that my perspective is characteristically American, but I don't think I've ever been as impressed as I am by students and scholars who had the benefit of extensive non-classroom time with free-form learning from a learned tutor.

If you look at another of my response comments to my parent comment, I mention that I don't really know if the system could be replaced with something better, but I don't think standardized education is good for anyone when compared to non-standardized education.

Re:How to Teach Math? by insert_coin on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:17PM (#27083081)
> I just don't think that a classroom can possibly match the free-form, consequential education that comes from serious one-on-one time with a skilled, productive adult performing a consequential task.

While true, I just don't think a one-on-one education, however skilled the tutor might be, could possibly match the social development that comes as consequence of classroom education.

Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:54PM (#27083337)
Is it really your opinion that students of modern education are "well-socialized"?
Re:How to Teach Math? by insert_coin on Friday May 07, 2021 @11:07PM (#27083428)
My opinion is that students not on classrooms are much less prepared to deal with those, according to you, non "well-socialized" students from traditional schools.
Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:05AM (#27083742)
Children who grow up spending the majority of their time in school are raised by their peers, rather than by productive adults. They look to each other for behavioral and moral cues. I have found that students from classrooms are, on the whole, rude, lazy, arrogant, cruel, apathetic, jealous, dishonest, narcissistic, anxious, and depressed.

I admit that their ability to not embarrass themselves among their peers is greater than those who are homeschooled or from experimental private schools, and their traditionally-schooled biting, ironic sarcasm is unmatched among the more naive non-schooled population. Traditional schoolchildren are also much better at taking instructions, falling in line, acquiescing to the wishes of their superiors, and bearing assaults on decency and freedom without complaint.

I made it through 12 years of public school and am extraordinarily "well-socialized", and I am disgusted by what it took to make me that way. It's only now that I've been out of school for about a decade that I've finally started to turn into a human being.

Re:How to Teach Math? by syops on Friday May 07, 2021 @07:41PM (#27082067)
Have you taught in a classroom? I have over 20 years experience teaching mathematics at community colleges and what you write sounds great but also sounds like it's from someone who hasn't taught in the classroom.
Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:10PM (#27082677)
I haven't; I freely admit that what I'm talking about would never work in a classroom. That is why I also believe that it is the classroom model itself that is fundamentally flawed.

I think we could get into an endless debate here; I would say that the classroom model is a symptom of a post-industrial society where everything must be compartmentalized, sorted, and certified by a governing authority, which thus destroys the human connection with all of human endeavor; you, and I apologize for putting words in your mouth, would likely say that we never could have gotten to the point of a post-industrial society where you and I could debate the merits of industrialized math education on the internet without the classroom. Assuming my projection of your argument is accurate, I'm not even sure you're wrong.

It's just that whatever they're teaching today is bad, and I think it's worse than not teaching it at all. People come out of school and college technically skilled but intellectually hobbled. I don't know if the system itself can fix that, or even if it should be fixed.

As a starting reference, I mention "the Seven Lesson Schoolteacher": http://www.uvm.edu/~rgriffin/GattoDumb.pdf

Re:How to Teach Math? by syops on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:10PM (#27083027)
Well, my experience is that the way it's being taught is the sort of an optimized version of teaching math given the culture/desires/abilities of those students that hover around the median. I've tried all sorts of things to motivate students and to teach them the why and purpose of the topics. You know what most of them want? What formula/method is used for which problem type.
Re:How to Teach Math? by Gooblebrai on Saturday May 08, 2021 @03:01AM (#27084655)
I'd dare to say that by that point, the system had already killed any remnants of intellectual curiosity the students might had, and replaced it for the obsession with marks and passing exams that predates the system.
Re:How to Teach Math? by syops on Saturday May 08, 2021 @06:56AM (#27085924)
I don’t believe this is the reason. I think people in general don’t want to go through the intellectual pain required to understand. I think the system in k-12 is as it is because it maximizes the outcome of getting the most people to the point of having some understanding. The obsession with marks is the thing that leads to this outcome. Most certainly won’t go through the pain of learning without some gamifying the process.
Re:How to Teach Math? by quacked on Saturday May 08, 2021 @12:52PM (#27088783)
I don't think we three necessarily disagree; we are alleging that the system causes people to be afraid of intellectual pain by virtue of its structure. Students feel the pain of schooling, in the form of shame and suffering, and assume that that is what intellectual development feels like, and that smart people are simply people who can endure more of it. Compare impersonal mass calisthenics to team sports workouts; both are painful, but the calisthenics are also mind-numbing.

As a college instructor at a community college, you're teaching math to people who likely have spent their whole lives watching other kids easily ace exams that they struggled with, who have never spent any of their genuinely free time doing math, and who just want to be let out of school. They are products of the system.

Re:How to Teach Math? by analog31 on Saturday May 08, 2021 @01:00AM (#27084032)
Granted it was many years ago, but I taught one semester of "college algebra" at a state university. My experience was similar to yours.
Re:How to Teach Math? by Koshkin on Friday May 07, 2021 @09:06PM (#27082659)
To be fair, they did admit that they “don’t know how to teach math”...
Re:How to Teach Math? by syops on Friday May 07, 2021 @10:08PM (#27083010)
To be fair, I don't either! I missed that part. Thanks for pointing it out.