The WHO directly said that meat is an important contributor to many forms of cancer: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/cancer-carcinogenic...

The problem here is that everyone takes the info they want and discards the rest.

Eating meat is not problematic, if done moderately. But nowadays there is not such moderation. There is meat in every meal.

Fake burgers are probably not healthy too, but this is not proven yet.

Just be moderate with what you eat.

This is all based on awfully bad epidemiological studies. Humans were eating MUCH more meat for most of our evolutionary past. Look how unhealthy we are now, and we aren't eating more meat. We're eating more plant fats and sugar. There is literally nothing unhealthy in eating meat, not more for us than for a lion.

Lions, and our ancestors, ate much leaner grass fed animals compared to our factory-fattened cows and pigs. I don't believe hunter gatherers were eating meat with 15-20% fat content as often as Americans eat burgers.

On the contrary, fat is prized by hunter-gatherers and humans likely had access to much more fat (megafauna) for much of our evolutionary history. Fat allowed us to supply for the high energy needs of our brains. This isn't my own speculation but collated from various sources, I can provide if interested just don't have them on hand.

Yes, it was certainly prized because of its high calorie content and relative scarcity compared to today, when one can have a virtually unlimited supply. That's why it tastes good.

The problem today is not an unlimited supply of meat (for most of the world) but an unlimited supply of sugar and seed oils. And the super / unnaturally sweet fruit, this is what's hacking us.

I didn't say it was the problem causing the obesity epidemic. Donuts being worse for you doesn't make eating fatty red meat so often healthy.

Also, while super sweet fruit can be problematic, it's far from one of the biggest problems. No one is getting diabetes from eating too many bananas.

I agree on the whole fruits, but processed fruits, with the fiber thrown out, are just as bad.

Saturated fat consumption is way down compared to historical patterns: https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/croissant_animal.png

(thankfully a recent uptick since official sources are starting to admit that saturated fat isn't bad)

Red meat consumption has been going down for decades: https://content.fortune.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/annua...

Also, do you have more on thst "seed oils are toxic"? Literally never heard about that.

See this for the example https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU

There is a ton of info, just look around. Also, what is the common ingredient in all processed foods? This is what is making people fat. Omega-6 integrates in body fat, easily oxidized and unstable, rendering our own fat inaccessible for energy, so we're chronically hungry, tired, and inflamed. Than add in sugar and salt for hyperpalability. We've been hacked.

Seed oils are nothing more than industrial waste sold as food for profits.

Just like meat is not toxic, neither is seed oil. I've been eating large amounts (~1000kcal a day) of flaxseed oil, olive oil, pumpkin seed oil, coconut oil and there has been no ill-effect on my cardiovascular or general health at all, after years of doing that.

This orthorexic behavior by labeling certain foods as unhealthy or healthy is the real problem.

Any kind of diet needs to be accompanied by a proper lifestyle. Eating a high calorie diet and then not having any physical activity is just asking for a bunch of metabolic issues.

Particular food item is not healthy or unhealthy, toxic or rejuvenating. It's the lifestyle+diet that can be labeled as healthy/unhealthy.

You're evidently misinformed, I've provided references (see Dr. Cate Shanahan for one) here regarding seed oils. There is no doubt they are toxic. Glad you're healthy, but look around you.

These are the worst ones: Canola, Corn, Cottonseed Soy, Sunflower, Safflower, Grapeseed, and Rice bran.

Also, olives and coconuts are fruits.

This idea that physical activity will balance out an unhealthy diet is wrong and has been proven wrong by decades of people attempting just that. It doesn't work. Once your metabolism is damaged by your diet, no amount of physical activity (if you can muster it) will fix it.

How am I misinformed? These doctors are exhibiting and supporting orthorexic behavior. I'm surely not going to listen to them.

There's a bunch of papers on Neu5Gc, should I start being scared of meat toxicity?

Diet containing seed oils can be healthy. Nowhere have I made an argument that an unhealthy diet will be countered by physical activity.

You keep saying "orthorexic" and I keep saying "toxic", up to you to look up the info which is abundant.

Cyanide in apple seeds is toxic in proper amounts, should I avoid consuming apple seeds, or apples completely?

Toxicity of certain compounds in meat or other foods has nothing to do with the food itself being healthy or unhealthy.

Similarly how antioxidant, vitamin or macronutrient content has nothing to do with that particular food being healthy or unhealthy.

Promoting the idea that a particular food or ingredient is healthy or unhealthy is promoting orthorexic behavior, an obsession over what to include or not include in your diet because of a made up measure of (un)healthiness.

Here's a riddle for you: if seed oils were not toxic, why are mice given seed oils as low as 4-5% of calories in order to cause cancer in the presence of other carcinogens? They don't get cancer with the carcinogens alone, they have to add the seed oils to trigger the cancers.

There are similar studies on meat/Neu5Gc being combined with fibre to reduce the toxicity - more carcinogens present the less fibre there is.

There are similar studies on casein/whey.

These studies do not make meat, milk, cheese or seed oils inherently unhealthy or show that you can't have them as a part of a healthy diet.

edit: doing a quick Google Scholar search I can find a bunch of studies that show positive outcomes after regular consumption of flaxseed (rich in omega 3s) or pumpkin seed (rich in omega 6) oils. These studies do not make these oils healthier.

Flax has alpha linolenic acid, which in some people (I am one of them) can't efficiently be converted into omega-3

20g of flaxseed oil (180kcal) contains a bunch of ALA, pick a massively low conversion ration to DHA/EPA of 0.5% or 1% or whatever, and you'll see that you'll get very near if not over the recommended daily amounts of 250-750mg.

Maybe, I don't have the exact figure either but it is known that a specific mutation (which I don't have) is needed for efficient conversion. This is telling that at some rather recent point (agriculture) humans started consuming less animal fats.

Chia and flax seeds are some of the best sources of Omega-3s...

Flax doesn't have omega-3, but alpha-linolenic acid, which depending on your genetics you might not be able to convert to omega-3 sufficiently (see rs174547 gene).

Sufficient omega-3 intake doesn't entirely mitigate the ills from omega-6 anyway, and there are other toxins in seed oils as well.

I never understood beyond for a health product though. Is that really their branding?

That's people's perception: meat is unhealthy, but now there's this vegetable-based "meat" that's better, tastes just as good and as a bonus it's saving the planet etc.