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Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by threatofrain on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:16PM (#27044965)
> Seeing good companies get torn to shreds by this campus idiocy reminds me of how insulated academia is from the real world.

What does this have to do with academia?

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by JPKab on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:37PM (#27045108)
Academia is where this ideology originated. It's where virtually all of the terminology came from. It's also where these employees were taught that collective identity dwarfs individual identity.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by treeman79 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:46PM (#27045182)
Your being downvoted but it’s true.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by gustavo-fring on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @11:22PM (#27045814)
Using all encompassing terms like "academia" is the problem.

I've been in academia for more than a decade. We're a regional school with lots of foreign students as well as commuter students. The professors that I've interacted with regularly (and are in a dept that deals with that stuff) have never been anything but professional and they understand the importance of rigor. I've yet to see them make emotional caustic and overreaching claims because they can. I suspect most of academia is like this, you just don't hear about it, cause it's boring. If you desire it, you too can work at bad wages for 2 decades before hoping for tenure at a place you barely get to choose.

Many of these terms that cause so many issues are those that are working jargon within a domain and make sense within the context of that domain with lots of awareness of the terminology, but when they are extracted out of that context and used by people (for a variety of reasons) for political and cultural battles, it becomes an issue.

So academia is perhaps responsible, but all of academia is not.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by avs733 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:21PM (#27044991)
It’s coded language.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by stjohnswarts on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:35PM (#27045097)
Pointing out that cancel culture is toxic and that free speech still has a place in polite isn't a bad thing. Academia really has a problem with siloing those of a different opinion and apparently it is extending to tech companies as well. I mostly just refuse to talk about that stuff at work. If it's not work related or "guess what I did last weekend" I'm not really interested.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by avs733 on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:23AM (#27050226)
I didn't say that and it is intriguing that people took it that way.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by SantalBlush on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @11:36PM (#27045890)
I keep reading the term "free speech" being brought up in these discussions. Some people have come to believe that free speech means "I can say what I want and nobody is allowed to respond negatively."

But this definition is, ironically, the polar opposite of free speech.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by s__s on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:04AM (#27046050)
Free speech by necessity requires tolerance. If there are extreme consequences to what you say you’re obviously not free to speak what you believe.

Losing your livelihood, being bullied, death threats, mob harassment etc are not acceptable responses to ideas or opinions you don’t like.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by crooked-v on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:39AM (#27046241)
Loss of livelihood is an entirely acceptable response to some ideas or opinions. For example: a doctor who holds the opinion that microorganisms don't actually exist and that diseases are caused by humours should be removed from their position as a doctor.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by SantalBlush on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @09:03AM (#27049326)
>being bullied, death threats, mob harassment etc are not acceptable responses to ideas or opinions you don’t like.

This is obvious, but I'm not sure how it pertains to this discussion.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vxNsr on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:53AM (#27050607)
Because many people in this discussion, on the internet and in our country do see it as an acceptable response.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by SantalBlush on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:05PM (#27051690)
>many people in this discussion

No they don't; we're talking about verbal disagreements and resignations in the workplace. None of these things deprive anyone of their First Amendment rights. If someone verbally disagrees with you, they are not infringing on your right to free speech; by insinuating that they are, you are taking an anti-free-speech position.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vxNsr on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:45PM (#27052289)
I’m not sure how you twisted it:

the OP said “harassment isn’t acceptable.”

you said “why is that in the discussion?”

I said “bec some ppl here think it is.”

you respond by quoting free speech case law.

We’re not arguing about the merits of how the SCOTUS rules on the 1st amendment. It’s a discussion of the appropriate response to encountering someone you disagree with.

You calling my employer now and telling them they should fire me is not an appropriate response no matter whether or not it’s protected by the first amd.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by SantalBlush on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:54PM (#27052415)
>you respond by quoting free speech case law.

No, I didn't. You are making this up to win an argument. There is no reference to case law or SCOTUS whatsoever in my comment. What a bizarre fabrication. I see there is clearly no point in continuing this if you're going to argue in such bad faith.

Moreover, a response you deem "inappropriate" is subjective. Either your free speech is being denied or it isn't. My boss can fire me for saying a lot of things they don't like; that doesn't infringe on my right to free speech. This is the way it has always been.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vxNsr on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @01:39PM (#27053050)
Again we’re not having a legal argument before a judge here. You keep saying things about what your boss or someone else can or can’t do.

That’s specifically not the discussion: you quoted the part of the OPs comment that called out the inappropriate behavior many like to engage in and agreed that it was wrong, but questioned its relevance to our discussion, it’s relevant bec many ppl don’t see it as inappropriate. Whether or not it’s legal is an entirely different discussion.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by SantalBlush on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @02:10PM (#27053515)
No, what I am saying is that you do not get to personally dictate what behavior qualifies as harassment or bullying and then conclude that you are being deprived of your free speech.

That is what you are trying to do here, and it is nonsense. Just because you feel outnumbered does not mean you are being harassed or bullied. If I swear at a customer and they complain to my boss, that does not mean I'm being harassed or bullied. How utterly childish.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vxNsr on Thursday May 06, 2021 @10:45AM (#27064014)
> being bullied, death threats, mob harassment etc are not acceptable responses to ideas or opinions you don’t like.

Soo in your opinion this is ok? I’m so confused...

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by JPKab on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:07PM (#27045351)
No, it's not.

Where do you think this ideology and hypersensitivity originated?

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by edoceo on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:24PM (#27045464)
I'm curious, was it academia? I mean, is there an origin story? I don't even know what terms search.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by bthazos on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @11:44PM (#27045930)
Probably. The historical origins are beyond me, but anecdotally I thought the 1994 movie PCU must've dealt a mortal blow to the political correctness movement because I stopped hearing about it and no one around me treated it as a real thing. In hindsight, the resurgence of mom jeans in the last decade should have planted seeds of worry in many a gen-xer.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vimy on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:30PM (#27045500)
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by edoceo on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:57PM (#27045686)
thanks! I've read that and this part sticks out:

""they assume racism is present in everything and look for it “Critically” until they find it.""

that doesn't seem like the scientific method to me. am I the dumb?

edit: also the founder of the linked site is critical of Critical Race Theory - so maybe there is bias in this article. Whatever, I asked for a place to start - so, thanks again.

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by JPKab on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @02:31AM (#27046829)
CRT is essay based, not science based. Think Foucault, not Pavlov.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by vxNsr on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:37AM (#27046226)
Every thinking person I know is critical of CRT. It doesn’t follow any scientific method, rewrites history and tells many lies to advance an agenda.

It’s basically all target painting.

Edit:I’m getting pretty heavy downvoting without any responses... anyone interested in actually explaining why they disagree?

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by jakelazaroff on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:55PM (#27045671)
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by avs733 on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:25AM (#27050247)
yeah but if we take a summary with a bias its easier to validate our opinions.
Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by clarkmoody on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @09:48PM (#27045196)
Intellectuals are the priests of the new alliance of throne and altar.

http://profcj.org/alliance-of-throne-altar/

Re:How Basecamp Blew Up by ed25519FUUU on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @10:08PM (#27045360)
Religion doesn’t go away, it just evolves.

Now the priest hand down by divine inspiration. Don’t question the orthodoxy.