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Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by piva00 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @03:20PM (#27041727)
> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures.

I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden.

Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issues are more-or-less the same. Even though Brazil is seen through a very sexualised image from the outside, it's still a very conservative society where women are shamed for having sex.

Now for Sweden: I don't think anything you said really applies here, people are very open about sex, parents just consider it a natural thing and will allow their teenagers to have sex in their house, I heard stories from friends who had breakfast with the parents of a hook up after a night out, etc. There is very little taboo about sex here, even though not everyone is open to talk about it, the vast majority is completely fine with people having sex.

Which brings me to a point I don't really grasp how it happens, my sexual experiences here showed me that women suffer some similar issues as the women in Brazil: lots of them don't have good sex, not even with their partners, most of the times not due to a lack of communication but a lack of understanding from men. I've heard from girlfriends similar behaviour from men here as in Brazil, not the aggressive type but the lack of care about their needs, a lack of interest and curiosity in sex itself, to improve it, etc.

And then I don't know if this is something global and most men in the world are really that bad sex partners, it was really surprising to hear from Scandinavian women some of the same issues that girlfriends in Brazil went through. Not even counting the abuse, in Brazil it's much more extreme but I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by llampx on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @05:58PM (#27043395)
Men on the other hand are generally taught by society that good sex is entirely their responsibility, and that if the woman does not get off, it is their fault.

This is one of the reasons why men are hesitant to talk about sex. It is easy to talk about it if you can say "No I didn't enjoy it and it isn't my fault." and less so if you have to introspect. Thoughts like, is my penis big enough? Am I not lasting long enough? Am I good-looking enough? and other thoughts come unbidden to the subconscious.

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by ethbr0 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @05:10PM (#27042958)
I typically don't talk about it here, but I'd say I've been part of a pretty sexually liberated community (US based) for... about 15 years.

Because of our educational focus, we had a high number of new people come through, learn and mature, and then go off to do other things. So I'd like to think I learned something watching the common arcs.

In American culture, there are two big hangups about sex: (1) nobody is comfortable admitting ignorance & (2) the former leads to nobody being able to communicate about anything sexual.

Essentially every critical sexual conversation is some variant of this: "I'm not sure about X. How do you feel about X?" "I've never tried X. Do you want to try it?" "I'm nervous, but I do. How about if we Y'd and Z'd to start?" "I don't think I'd like Y. What if we Y_1'd and Z'd?" "I'm up for that!"

Notice the numerous admissions of ignorance. Because real conversations start in truth, without judgement. And it's worth it, because that's how you get to the fun times. Either in or out of a relationship.

(And ironically, you know who is typically comfortable admitting ignorance? Those with the most experience)

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by AussieWog93 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @07:55PM (#27044375)
I don't know whether this is the case for everyone, but I've noticed that my wife's dissatisfaction tends to correlate very very strongly with periods where I'm completely exhausted.

I genuinely believe most men _want_ to satisfy their partners securely, in the same way that many working mothers _want_ to cook wholesome, healthy meals from scratch for their children, but after yet another stressful day we just don't have focus and energy required to show the love in that way.

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by IkmoIkmo on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @05:37PM (#27043211)
> I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.

Same here, absolutely appalling. Whenever I speak about it with guy friends they don't quite believe me and try to rationalise it (which is a common response for me on many topics as well), often by arguing semantics of what is considered rape or abuse etc, or the integrity of the person in question.

I'm not sure what prompts this skepticism exactly. The friends I've discussed this with who are skeptical, tend to otherwise be quite understanding and well thinking individuals. It's a bit akin to my own first reactions to allegations of Chinese genocide against Uyghurs, the concentration camps, etc. That can't be... There's probably some nuance I'm missing. I was only convinced after reading more and being exposed to more information and evidence.

It's very hard to have these conversations with some guy friends as none of my female friends have wanted me to share any part of their experiences with anyone else. That makes it really tricky to convince anyone else of the veracity of their claims. If I could, I could say 'well it's actually my partner, who I fully trust, or my mother who is completely honest, or our mutual best friend for the past 15 years', people whom my friends also hold in high regard and believe at face value, like I believe them.

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by GavinMcG on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @06:33PM (#27043704)
I don't think I've ever asked a woman older than her mid-twenties about her experiences without hearing about an instance of assault. Some serious, some not, but universal.
Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by sizzle on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @01:03PM (#27052538)
Pornography from a young age might be warping their perception of sex and what it’s supposed to look like making them unable to please a woman who needs time to warm up instead of going from 0-100 like men are portrayed as doing.
Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by poisonarena on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @04:47AM (#27047618)
I totally disagree with your view on Brazil, I have had lots of dates with many kinds of women and lived in Rio Comprido, and had a long term relationship and many friend in Brazil for a few year and I have found it is very acceptable to have had many partners for young women, and that "overly sexualized" image that is perceived from the outside is for the most part valid and people are much more open with their bodies, showing their bodies, and even hooking up with strangers. All you need to do is go to carnaval. Maybe some evangelical christians are like this but, even among them, I find many are sort of 'born again' after a fairly hedonistic lifestyle.
Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by piva00 on Thursday May 06, 2021 @05:13AM (#27060792)
Well, I lived from when I was born up to my 27th birthday in Brazil. I went to school in Brazil, I dated a lot of Brazilian women, I have two sisters in Brazil.

I don't want to dispute your anecdote but I feel I have a bit more hands-on experience with Brazilian society.

Don't compare Carnaval, a one-off whole-nation party week to how society really works on the day-to-day.