News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Sunday May 02, 2021 @11:04AM (#27015896)
There would probably be more respect even if nothing else changed except they paid more.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by fossuser on Sunday May 02, 2021 @01:04PM (#27016823)
I doubt it.

Both because Amazon pay is decent, but more so because it’s more about class expectations than it is about pay.

Lots of jobs make a lot of money, but are still not considered high status.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Sunday May 02, 2021 @02:03PM (#27017350)
Jobs like what?

The only ones I can think of are ones which suddenly started paying a lot due to some market quirk (e.g. miners in Australia in the 2010s).

Class expectations just take a while to catch up (or never do if the market quirk doesn't persist).

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by NikolaNovak on Sunday May 02, 2021 @03:23PM (#27018111)
In Canada at least, any contractor/constructing job.

Plumbers, electricians are educated specialists making very very good hourly wage but won't get same status as say IT manager.

Bonded cleaner with great references can easily be 50 bucks an hour.

Truck drivers, forklift operators have steadily been well compensated and need certified skillset but again don't get same perceived class status.

Note I'm not saying I don't / these jobs shouldn't have respect :). Question was which well paid jobs are seen as different conferring class status despite good pay and this is the general perception I've observed.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Monday May 03, 2021 @04:02AM (#27022673)
https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Industry=Construction/S...

Average is 66k CAD / year, apparently.

That's not amazing. Construction is also notorious for ruining your body (health problems / early retirement a necessity) so it's not even as good as a 66k CAD office wage.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by tracedddd on Sunday May 02, 2021 @03:12PM (#27017989)
Oil industry workers don’t seem to carry much clout, kind of a dirty job with a lot of physical labor, but pays quite well and has for a while.

Truckers can still make an upper middle class salary, especially if they own their truck or focus on a niche (refrigerated, military deliveries, cross border, etc.)

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Sunday May 02, 2021 @03:18PM (#27018053)
I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k.

Truckers are not doing so well these days, and where they do make a lot it's typically because of backbreaking labor and/or taking on financial risks. This still only gets you into lower/mid tier software dev wages.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by jdhn on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:38PM (#27018787)
>Truckers are not doing so well these days

I thought there was a trucker shortage happening?

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Monday May 03, 2021 @04:11AM (#27022701)
There's always a labor shortage of some kind if you're the one paying the wages.

In truckers' cases it must be a shortage of experienced truckers willing to partake in backbreaking labor and take financial and health risks for $60k / year.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pmoriarty on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:03PM (#27018515)
"I was actually thinking of underwater welders when I wrote that. Not all oil industry jobs pay well but that one really can, and it carries the cachet to boot. It's definitely manual labor royalty - dangerous, highly skilled and pays up to $300k."

A lot of the "well paying", low-status jobs mentioned in this thread are dangrous... long-haul truckers, construction workers, underwater welders, even electricians are jobs where you have to risk your life to do them, and many of them are statistically dangerous as well.

So whether the people who have such jobs are "well compensated" for risking their lives like that is debatable.

Certainly an IT manager job that paid the same as a trucker would be far more preferable in terms of safety, and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account.

Of course, low-paid delivery jobs are even worse when you consider that those low-paid delivery drivers have to risk their lives on the road to deliver your packages.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by fossuser on Sunday May 02, 2021 @05:03PM (#27018993)
> “ and would therefore be far better compensated when the danger of being a trucker is taken in to account.”

This strikes me as just making up reasons why examples that disprove the status/pay point aren’t really disproving it.

If you can just make up reasons why your position is right anyway even in cases where it’s not, then it’s basically unfalsifiable.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by fossuser on Sunday May 02, 2021 @02:10PM (#27017412)
Plumbing and electrician are the first two that come to mind.

Construction would probably be another.

Basically “blue collar” jobs that require a lot of expertise.

I’d guess some variation and small business risk, but I think many do well.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by roninhacker on Sunday May 02, 2021 @02:55PM (#27017832)
The reason those don't command respect is because they don't pay well in the main.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by xupybd on Sunday May 02, 2021 @03:11PM (#27017987)
An experienced industrial electrician gets more than your average software developer, here in NZ.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by pydry on Sunday May 02, 2021 @03:23PM (#27018109)
Software devs in NZ are really badly paid.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by UweSchmidt on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:44PM (#27018837)
Software jobs are low status.

We live in a bubble and respect good hackers but normies don't like nerds.

Hollywood portrays us between weirdo and pervert, while glorifying lawyers and doctors.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by FineTralfazz on Sunday May 02, 2021 @05:35PM (#27019267)
That has a lot more to do with personality than career. If you’re an irritating know-it-all weirdo, people aren’t going to like you regardless of your job. I’ve known engineers like that that, but most people I know and work with are normal people and are respected.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by Nasrudith on Sunday May 02, 2021 @07:47PM (#27020130)
That victim blaming just plain doesn't line up with reality. Outright assholes are downright lionized. Perfectly upright people are looked down upon for "weird" fields or ones which make them feel insecure or inadequate.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by robocat on Sunday May 02, 2021 @07:47PM (#27020134)
> irritating know-it-all

Sounds like lawyers and doctors (or plenty of people really).

> weirdo

That is a bit of a stereotype. I suspect a large percentage of software jobs are filled by standard people. The weirdos do stand out, but I don’t know anyone who actually fits the Hollywood stereotype.

And weirdo be replaced by equally socially unacceptable traits (arrogant or closed-minded etcetera) that apply to doctors and lawyers.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by fossuser on Sunday May 02, 2021 @07:54PM (#27020188)
Not really.

If you work in software people think it’s cool.

It maybe was low status 20 years ago, but since 2010 or so it’s changed.

Even in NYC the finance people prefer to talk about their app ideas rather than admit they work at a bank.

Compare that to someone who drives for Amazon - the cultural status is not the same.

Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by nitrogen on Sunday May 02, 2021 @12:34PM (#27016549)
I knew a UPS long-haul driver who was making over $100k in 2003.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by sldksk on Sunday May 02, 2021 @12:48PM (#27016677)
That was 2003 and a different career with different qualifications, not to mention work schedule.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by nitrogen on Sunday May 02, 2021 @01:53PM (#27017257)
My point is the potential is there for driving and delivering to rise in status and pay again.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by sldksk on Sunday May 02, 2021 @12:55PM (#27016737)
This can’t be overstated. Dignity means having the financial stability required to comfortably live in a decent neighborhood, get married, and raise a family.
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by TchoBeer on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:52PM (#27018895)
What if I don't want to get married and/or raise a family?
Re:I Used to Write for Sports Illustrated. Now I Deliver Pac... by detaro on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:56PM (#27018926)
Then don't? Having the stability that you could is good either way.