News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Saturday May 01, 2021 @11:53AM (#27007261)
I don’t think they exist because even something as simple as “changing master to main” gets pushback because “political”

It’s a name, it’s generally not hard to change, and if it makes someone happier why not main is shorter to type! But people still push back against it for.. reasons

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by goatinaboat on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:16PM (#27007936)
But people still push back against it for.. reasons

It's pretty simple, actually

Person A: We need to do thing X

Person B: Why?

Person A: Because I am morally superior to you, and I say so

You really don't understand why person B would push back against tacitly accepting that they were the moral deficient? It's the same reason people dislike vegans who say "for moral reasons", they're asserting that everyone around them is immoral, and people find it obnoxious.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:27PM (#27008038)
Im sorry but I really don’t follow. How is asking making any moral judgements? Your either reading into what people say and not handling your own discomfort very well or making assumptions on what person a would say? When this first came up I too asked why:

“Because it reminds people of slavery which is still fresh in the minds of many and makes some uncomfortable”

“Oh, Ok” changes it and moves on with her life

Another way of looking at it is “why not?”

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by goatinaboat on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:43PM (#27008198)
Because it reminds people of slavery which is still fresh in the minds of many and makes some uncomfortable

Well, "main" is like "mainmast" of the sailing ships that brought the slaves over.

See, once you start this game, it never ends. The master in "master branch" was never anything to do with slavery - and everyone knows it. No one in the world equated committing to master with endorsing slavery, but that is what you are accusing them of. Same as master bedroom and master's degree and mastering a skill and countless other examples. And why is "master" problematic but not "owner"? After all the common term was not "slavemaster" but "slaveowner" remember. Shall we do branch owners or code owners or file owners next?

Another way of looking at it is “why not?”

Why not leave it as it is then? Why step onto a never ending treadmill of arbitrary changes for change's sake?

Anyway I'm not trying to convince you here (I get the feeling that that would be pointless) I am merely explaining to you the behaviour you have observed but don't understand the motivation for.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:41PM (#27008665)
Slippery slope much? I don’t see anyone bothered by or complaining about main, except those who don’t want to change it, and no ones ever said anything about owners. A large number of people don’t like master and if I can make someone’s life a little better with such a small change I will. Times change, language changes.

If you won’t do so that’s fine, but be honest why you won’t, your arguments keep changing first it was their “moral superiority” And now “where will it end/its change for changes sake” which both sound like excuses to me

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by goatinaboat on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:27PM (#27009079)
If you won’t do so that’s fine, but be honest why you won’t, your arguments keep changing first it was their “moral superiority” And now “where will it end/its change for changes sake

What are you implying that my "honest" reason is, of course you are insinuating that I am a closet racist. And it is just change for the sake of being able to demand a change, if you are being honest, you get a vicarious thrill out of the power you get and the sense of superiority it gives you and you won't stop, and we both know it.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:13AM (#27013260)
lol no that didn't cross my mind. more that its seems the idea of renaming master -> main makes you uncomfortable for some reason and your not dealing with it well. You keep bring up morales and now "superiority" - none of which crossed my mind because i don't think like that and wrt master/main all i care about is changing it for those who want it nothing else but it's real clear these are important to you and this discussion centers around those themes for you.

You keep jumping to extreme conclusions and assumptions which is kinda hilariously sad as that's what you accuse "the other side" of doing

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by goatinaboat on Sunday May 02, 2021 @05:06AM (#27013561)
i don't think like that and wrt master/main all i care about is changing it for those who want it nothing else

What you are missing - because I never mentioned it, and I should never have to mention it - is that I actually am a BAME or a POC or whatever. Not only does the word "master" not make me feel uncomfortable, noone ever bothered asked me if it did before starting to agitate for this change. Now you may be one too, I don't know, and feel free to change it to anything you want in your own repos if a word upsets you so much (and you should rid yourself of all other problematic words too, like "owner"). But don't kid yourself that you're doing it for the benefit of the wider BAME community. And don't kid yourself about your reasons for telling everyone about it.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Sunday May 02, 2021 @12:41PM (#27016616)
You don't speak for all POC just like i don't speak for all queers and never would be so presumptuous to assume my opinions are shared across the community. So just because you didn't care or want it changed doesn't mean others didn't ask for it.

> don't kid yourself about your reasons for telling everyone about it

You really seem to have a hard time grasping that there was nothing more to it other then being raised as a concern by POC so i just did it and moved on with my life. The only reason i mentioned it was to use it as an example of how hard it can be to escape politics entirely in the workplace and this entire conversation has really hit that point home.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by hparadiz on Monday May 03, 2021 @02:18AM (#27022179)
This entire thread is kinda the point. I feel like I've wasted days of my life reading about master versus main. Even went and converted my biggest open source projects to "release" myself cause I typically work on develop then push to master and tag as a release. So to me master is "most recent release". In my head it was always like "master recording". It's not even "main" cause work is being done on develop and the release branch gets it last. I honestly don't care either way, didn't bring it up at work, and no one else did either but the virtue signaling with this is just toxic. Your implication that someone not wanting to change their branch name makes them inherently racist is super toxic. It's just gate keeping being woke. You don't have woke enough points if you don't do this, that, and the other thing.

Also does a single POC represent their entire race? Isn't that itself racist to think that way? In any population you'll find people who can claim to support literally anything.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by darkerside on Saturday May 01, 2021 @11:17PM (#27012089)
You've really derailed this discussion in a disappointing way.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by katbyte on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:13AM (#27013264)
can you elaborate and explain why you feel that way?
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by darkerside on Sunday May 02, 2021 @02:26PM (#27017564)
Topic of conversation: Can you have an effective workplace where you can any discussion related to politics?

Where you've taken us: You shouldn't call your main branch master

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by kortilla on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @12:32AM (#27034092)
> “Oh, Ok” changes it and moves on with her life

Except this isn’t how the fantasy plays out in real systems. This breaks builds, readmes, packaging, etc and takes a non-trivial amount of time to fix.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by darkerside on Saturday May 01, 2021 @11:18PM (#27012094)
> There are quite a few that don’t interact with global customers and literally never have to even discuss those things.

What are some of the few?