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Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by throwaway_kufu on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:09AM (#27003327)
> Money that works even where traditional systems fail.

Just playing devils advocate, but isn’t it’s usage reliant on traditional systems like electricity, ISPs, hardware makers, software makers, mining operations, etc?

Say you were in California during rolling blackouts, or Florida post hurricane that knocks the power out for weeks, or an authoritative country that has historically turned the internet off on its citizens during protests/uprisings. How would it all work?

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by killerstorm on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:02AM (#27003660)
Well, you need very little to use Bitcoin - basically, just internet access. And, potentially, you only need to smuggle as little as 250 bytes.

Banking systems has more choke points. If money is on your bank account and it gets blocked, that's it, nothing can be done about it.

With Bitcoin, even if internet in the entire country is blocked, you still have options: you can transmit data by phone. There are many ways to smuggle 250 bytes out of a country.

You can also just memorize the mnemonic phrase (so-called brainwallet) and move yourself out. They won't find your bitcoins even if they strip-search you. (But if they know you have them, wrench attack might work, no defense against that if your privacy is compromised.)

All the other things are not necessary for using cryptocurrency, they just need to happen somewhere. So the system can route around the damage. Mining is not possible in your country? That's OK, it will work as long as there's at least one country where mining is possible.

So Bitcoin resilience is not about working when power is out, obviously. It is about giving people options to route around the damage. If your bank blocks you, you can't go to another bank to get money on your account, since that money resides within a particular bank. But Bitcoin is global - you can access your funds from any computer in any country, as long as you have a private key.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by ineedasername on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:48AM (#27003911)
Banking systems has more choke points

Those banking systems are the primary method of turning fiat into bitcoin & vice versa, so those banking choke points are defacto choke points for bitcoin as well.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by meowkit on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:01AM (#27003984)
Assuming you always have to flow back to fiat?

At some point we will have CBDCs which crypto exchanges and banks will support, so legacy bank chokepoints should disappear altogether.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by ineedasername on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:18AM (#27004085)
Doesn't have to flow back, but it does have to flow in to begin with, and banks are the choke point in either direction.
Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by vineyardmike on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:44AM (#27004520)
I don't know how many people want to get paid in crypto yet. I'm sure someone is fine with it.
Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by ClumsyPilot on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:08AM (#27004644)
In prague we have bitcoin can machines and I paid for a beer with it in like 2016. Not that beer is worth more than it's wieght in gold
Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by porknubbins on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:18AM (#27003373)
I believe cell towers in hurricane threatened places like Florida plan for generator backups and flood countermeasures etc. That said I'm sure throughput is squeezed, but I don't think anyone really plans for a catastrophic scenario where large numbers of US residents lose all internet.

Kind of like saying "what good is Bitcoin during a hurricane Katrina scenario" but by that point its survival, not money you're worried about.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by parineum on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:22AM (#27003407)
People often buy things with money to survive.
Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by tolbish on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:03AM (#27004328)
Surely enough, the people at Disaster Radio [0] are passionately working on this very problem.

[0] https://disaster.radio/

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by inter_netuser on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:10AM (#27003701)
Transactions are very small and can be even sent via HAM radio, or weak satellite link.

There are also devices for offline transactions.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by throwaway_kufu on Saturday May 01, 2021 @11:24PM (#27012118)
Sure, but The point was how Bitcoin and crypto would “work” when traditional legacy systems fail.

Relying on HAM radios and satellite links are both legacy systems and we can’t pretend any significant percentage of the global populace could conduct Bitcoin transactions without centralized 3rd party services subject to the same regulations as the banks, much less use HAM radios, especially the poor and unbanked who always seem to be the goto demographic the proponents of cryptocurrency point to as the people benefiting greatly from cryptocurrency.

It’s on par with saying when supply chains fail we have farming, hunting and gathering. Very few people are capable of getting fresh water much less living off the fat of the land.

I like the technology and do see it as still in the early stages of adoption, but I liked the freedom of the early internet, unfortunately that didn’t stop SV and VC money from putting a strangle hold on it, making it the shit-hole sandboxes it is today, exploiting people and farming their attention and data for advertising dollars.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by vineyardmike on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:52AM (#27004567)
Not to counter the point you're making, because it's valid. Just tossing in some info:

> sent via HAM radio

You probably want to transmit your private key in a secure manner. HAM radio is not a good way to do this: http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-dismisses-encryption-petition

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by inter_netuser on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:19AM (#27004690)
what's being transmitted is a signed transaction, they are not encrypted. They can be safely transmitted on a postcard.

You are correct in that technically HAM does not allow for encrypted communications, but that's not an issue here, and probably would be very low on the list of concerns in a situation where your only comms channel is HAM.

Re:SSD makers start warning that mining products like ChiaCo... by dandongus on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:10AM (#27004651)
You don't transmit your private key.