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Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by cletus on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:24AM (#26992491)
So Apple's ecosystem does two things:

1. it gatekeeps what's in the App Store. This is of course controversial but is a net positive for consumers (IMHO); and

2. It provides a convenient payments infrastructure.

I certainly hope no government forces Apple to allow third-party App stores. Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers (eg Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, Rockstar) and nearly all of them are terrible.

(2) also has value, even for big companies. There are definitely people who buy things (including subscriptions) on Apple devices because of the ease of doing so. Remember that cut also does include credit card processing fees so that sets the floor at 1-2% not 0%. That's still a lot less than 30% of course. And I think this is particularly egregious for recurring charges like Spotify in this case.

This is why I was utterly confused by Apple's move last year to lower the cut for small developers only. This is the complete reverse of what they should do. It's clear that the winds are blowing towards government intervention here so Apple should be looking to control the narrative and deciding what compromise looks like.

If Apple had come out and said that if you process more than $10m/year then their cut was 10% of initial purchases and 5% of recurring charges do you honestly think that Spotify or Epic or anyone else would be suing them or seeking government intervention to anywhere the same degree?

Apple (and Google) are just holding on too tight to the 30% cut and they're not reading the (antitrust) room.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by simion314 on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:37AM (#26992609)
Dude you can buy same game Cyberpunk on at least 3 different stores, what is wrong in the fact you have a choice?

Sure you have some bad examples with some of EA games or other exclusives but only a retard would say "I wish only Steam existed because I love Valve screwing me so everyone should learn to love it")

I don't blame Epic or EA either, why should they pay Valve a 30% tax when they can build a store and not throw money away. But I am against exclusives, EA or Epic should put their shit in all stores but on their own stores they could make things cheaper or offer other benefits.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by kwyjobojoe on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:37AM (#26993284)
Choice is bad because Apple consumers prefer to be forced to only do things the Apple way (like when you couldn't transfer a file via Bluetooth between an ipad and iPhone because at the time Apple wanted you to use a computer, yet it worked fine transferring to an Android phone. Took me a while to figure that one out)
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by alickz on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:12AM (#26992956)
> Just look at what a mess this is on the PC where there are a million launchers

Which has resulted in some much needed competition for Steam, particularly around dev cuts.

Also just look at macOS, would anyone really prefer to only be able to install mac apps from the Mac App Store?

Would the benefits of forcing users and devs through the Mac App Store outweigh the benefits of users being able to install whichever software they wished?

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by cletus on Friday April 30, 2021 @11:01AM (#26994315)
Users sideloading apps on their phones is likely to be a benefit to like 5,000 people and an attack vector for 3 billion.

As for Steam, you don't have to use it as a game publisher, as in you could always sell physical media (up until the past few years) or a download. As a consumer I'll pretty much always prefer buying a game through Steam. I hate all these other launchers that you have to now use for like one title because they suck.

This same "me too" philosophy is ruining online content distribution where once Netflix was so good. Just look at the difficulty in finding out if a given movie or TV show is on any of your services. There's really no good way to do that. I've seen websites that try but they also include Amazon, Google Play and iTunes where you can buy that content when all I'm interested in is where it streams for free. It just sucks.

More is not always better.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by Apocryphon on Friday April 30, 2021 @05:07PM (#26999348)
> an attack vector for 3 billion

Apple can handle it. They could just put enough stringent protections at the OS layer against malicious apps. Not to mention, any sideloading feature would be well guarded from within the interface so that no one other than power users would actually find it and enable it.

> This same "me too" philosophy is ruining online content distribution where once Netflix was so good.

Ease of service does not justify monopoly.

> Just look at the difficulty in finding out if a given movie or TV show is on any of your services.

It is indeed annoying, but that's not so much an issue directly caused by competition between different streaming services, so much as the studios/networks hoarding their IP. Even if Hulu, Amazon Prime, etc. never existed, you'd still see efforts like HBO Max, Peacock from NBC, Paramount Plus from CBS, etc. to try to monopolize their own IP by keeping it off of Netflix.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by Siira on Friday April 30, 2021 @03:37PM (#26998251)
> like 5,000 people

Says you. Piracy and sanctions alone will make millions use these, not to mention any other uses.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by polskibus on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:28AM (#26992534)
Apple could just stop offering own apps. Utility companies are often regulated similarly - in many countries you can be either an energy producer or grid, not both.
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by cletus on Friday April 30, 2021 @10:56AM (#26994243)
This same idea comes up with Google search results.

For example, if you search for "mortgage calculator" you get a widget you can use directly. If you click on any of the links it takes forever to load (because it's loading 137 different tracking cookies), you're prompted to sign up to their newsletter, there are ads, the calculator is spread across multiple pages (because, hey, that's more impressions) and so on.

It's a terrible user experience.

So my point is a blanket ban of "competing" is likely to be worse for the consumer.

For this example, Apple has a lot of experience with music, a lot of deals in place and developed the iTunes ecosystem. I don't have an issue with them trying to sell a subscription music service. A blanket ban on this seems like an overreaction.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:37AM (#26992603)
Why do people compare luxury phone products to utilities lol. Do people honestly believe access to electricity and to iPhones are in any way comparable?
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by simion314 on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:40AM (#26992631)
Because sometimes you have no choice then build a mobile app and you have to build it for what your customers use, I can't ask my customers to switch to some Linux phone or PC because I have the choice to build only Linux stuff.

From the POV of users I would like to see soemthing to make it easy to escape the lockin, like to be able to keep your movies and apps.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:41AM (#26992644)
The vast majority of businesses have no app presence. I honestly don’t understand.

In no way are Apple devices and electricity access comparable. Phone ecosystems come and go - energy access is forever.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by simion314 on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:12AM (#26992953)
Why should a percentage of businesses be relevant?

If I want to deliver food can I ask my customers to use a Linux PC because I only have a Linux app? Can you tell your customers that your website only works on Safari?

As a company you have to implement what the customers want, not what you want. Apple controlling the market means you have to (even if you are not forced by a law of nature) make sure your webiste works on Apple devices and if customers want/need mobile apps (maybe because it needs access to native APIs or other shit that you can't do from a web page) you need to have an iOS and an Android app.

Apple is not forced to sell in EU either, they will fight this but they are doomed to fail and I think the US is also locking into this, and you also have the right to repair movement that would hopefully also force Apple to do the right thing,

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:30AM (#26993200)
> If I want to deliver food can I ask my customers to use a Linux PC because I only have a Linux app? Can you tell your customers that your website only works on Safari?

Sure why not?

Businesses don’t have to do anything. They can and do support things arbitrarily and customers choose which business to engage with based off those decisions.

Apple and Google are following the same rules. Hopefully those rules change, but I doubt it.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by simion314 on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:41AM (#26993332)
>Sure why not

Are you trolling? or do not understand business?

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:44AM (#26993373)
I do understand business. You understand that customers are free to move on if they don't like a business' practices right? There are business's today whose websites only work on certain browsers, so I don't know what you're going on about to begin with.
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by simion314 on Friday April 30, 2021 @10:01AM (#26993581)
>You understand that customers are free to move on if they don't like a business'

False. Not when there is a monopoly or the cost is too big(do you need examples? or definitions?)

>There are business's today whose websites only work on certain browsers

Sure, show me more then one excpetion of a company that made a web product from scratch in the latest 10 years and their product supports ONLY a browser with less then 50% market share.

But if you REALLY think(and not trolling) that a real business like restaurant/gym/parking place/shop can support only Linux phones then stop replying , just buy a iPhone from US when the EU version will be unlock-able.

Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by isbvhodnvemrwvn on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:40AM (#26992636)
Protection of consumers is the common ground.
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:42AM (#26992656)
Would you say televisions and electricity are also comparable for the same reason?
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by isbvhodnvemrwvn on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:45AM (#26992681)
Yes, if the electricity provider required 30% cut for any TV I hook up except for the one they sell, I would like them to be stopped.
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:47AM (#26992699)
That’s not really the analogous situation. More like Samsung takes a 30% cut on apps on its Tizen platform. Surely you’d just change TVs no? Or not buy it to begin with?
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by isbvhodnvemrwvn on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:58AM (#26992793)
If only Samsung and Sony were making these TVs, and they both had these platforms, I'm screwed anyway, am I not?
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by endisneigh on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:06AM (#26992886)
How are you screwed, exactly? You can still watch tv, no?
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by isbvhodnvemrwvn on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:49AM (#26993428)
The full value of iPhones is in the ecosystem of apps, not in the OS itself.
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by cblconfederate on Friday April 30, 2021 @10:28AM (#26993915)
During the pandemic many governments use phones to coordinate lockdowns
Re:EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after ... by swiley on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:04AM (#26992867)
I'm tired of writing it but Apple's App Store does not prevent malware and scams.

See my earlier comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26966785