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Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by mc32 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @08:26AM (#26980257)
For WWII planes went from design to production in months. Obviously technology was much simpler and you didn’t have thousands of entities working on one design (or committees in the middle), but taking the best part of two decades to get something up in the air is a very bad sign of how government things get done.

Imagine where SpaceX would be if the government got in there making sure everyone was happy and all 50 states got a piece of the action.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by minikites on Thursday April 29, 2021 @10:42AM (#26981792)
>Imagine where SpaceX would be if the government got in there making sure everyone was happy and all 50 states got a piece of the action.

The government landed men on the moon fifty years ago and SpaceX is still blowing up rockets regularly, I'm not sure your comparison is particularly flattering to SpaceX.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by mc32 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @10:52AM (#26981921)
I don't think it's fair to compare the budget (in real terms) NASA had with the one SpaceX has when you make that comparison.

Moreover, I fee like our government today would have a hard time pulling off that feat. In the early 60s we still had somewhat nimble areas of government. I don't think it's true today. We allow too many interests to have too much pull and negative influence causing some kind of paralysis as well and franken-projects that are impossibly encompassing.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by aplummer on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:51AM (#26982739)
Aren’t fighter jets made by private companies? They pitch designs to procurement…?
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by mc32 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:58AM (#26982819)
They are but built by govt committees and these projects have to provide pork to all senators before there’s a green light. So it’s not, “build us a fighter to take down MiG-35 or whatever. It’s we want it to work for NATO, the marines, navy and Air Force, and provide air cover and drop bombs and air superiority and... so they get a Frankenstein plane that does nothing exceptionally well.
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by craftinator on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:36PM (#26997484)
> The government landed men on the moon fifty years ago

And cannot accomplish that task again today. And did it by investing massive quantities of money and resources in a project, which no business could possibly hope to match, unless they print their own cash flow, as the government does.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by silexia on Thursday April 29, 2021 @08:47AM (#26980467)
The simplest solution is don't buy or build things you don't need. Wait till we actually have an opponent where advanced fighter jets would help defeat them. America's founders tried to prevent a standing army for this reason and also because most militaries get used against their own citizens more frequently than getting used against foreign enemies.
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by stirfish on Thursday April 29, 2021 @10:03AM (#26981286)
"Alexa, order a fire extinguisher."
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by silexia on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:00AM (#26982031)
You mock, but in world war II America did not build its Navy, Air Force or Army until AFTER Pear Harbor was attacked. Then we built weapons that were customized to defeat the enemies we had.
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by thrower123 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:18PM (#26983070)
This has never been the doctrine of the Navy, because of the enormous capital expenditures and specialization, even going back to the days of sailing ships.

It never worked out particularly well for the Army, either. Every war in US history before the establishment of a permanent standing army with NATO is a story of a hasty, disorganized clusterfuck for upwards of a year until a semi-professional organization was painfully established, and it's rarely until year two or three that a really effective force could ever be forged out of the tiny cadre of professionals and the mass influx of untrained volunteers or conscripts.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by craftinator on Friday April 30, 2021 @02:33PM (#26997447)
> It never worked out particularly well for the Army, either.

Which is funny, because as the original comment points out that until after we'd been attacked during WWII, we didn't have a significant standing army. After we were attacked, we started a large buildup, and ended up on the winning side. Every war the US engaged in since then, we've both already had a standing army, and we've LOST. So statistically at least, having a large standing army is more likely to lose us a war.

To be fair, in all of those wars we've lost, there has been strategic ineptitude from the top down in each one. Vietnam was a bad idea, which is why the people of the US protested it so hard. Anything in the middle east has been a clusterf, and even the people choosing to go there knew it was stupid. I'll allow that Korea was somewhat sensible in terms of long-term defense, but even then it could've been handled better. But a standing army hasn't been winning us wars, that's for sure.

Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by nradov on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:43AM (#26982619)
That example no longer applies. Equipment is orders of magnitude more complex now. Entire supply chains have to be established which can take years regardless of how much funding you throw at the problem.
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by stirfish on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:28AM (#26982416)
That's a really great point, I hadn't considered that.
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by chipsa on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:30PM (#26983221)
Yes, wait until we have an opponent which requires advanced fighter jets, then order development to start. Only will take 2 decades to reach production. And hey, maybe we won't need them by the time it reaches production!
Re:Is the F-35 officially a failure? by simonblack on Thursday April 29, 2021 @07:17PM (#26988047)
... take 20 years ....

Stealth is overrated. It's been over-rated since the Serbs shot down an F117 twenty years ago.

AI can be good. But a man is better AI than AI itself. And generally it's a whole lot lighter in weight.

The F-35 is too heavy, and has too little range to be useful.

WW2 planes were simple and spartan. They were light in weight and more manoeuvrable because they were simple and spartan.

America relies too much on advanced weaponry. (Vietnam, Afghanistan... cough, cough) The Germans in WW2 had the most advanced weaponry. But the Allies and Soviets swamped those advanced weapons with sheer numbers of 'good enough' weapons.

It's no good having a weapon with a 100:1 kill-ratio if the enemy can throw 101 of his weapons at it.