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Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by kstrauser on Monday April 26, 2021 @12:50PM (#26944744)
This case will be irrelevant to workplace firings. It's the specific situation of children in schools having fewer rights than adults in the workplace that's the issue here. Some courts have already ruled that kids don't enjoy a full separation between school and personal lives because what they do at home can be disruptive at school, and this ruling is expected to address that specific line of thinking.

And really, any grown adult who says the same things about their employer that Levy did about her school should expect to find themselves unemployed as soon as word gets back. I don't mean that to diss Levy, who was a kid at the time, and besides, what kids don't privately rant to their friends about school? It's neither appropriate nor desirable for a school to say "you don't like it, then quit" to a child, whereas it's reasonable for most work settings to fire a disgruntled employee.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by anaerobicover on Monday April 26, 2021 @12:55PM (#26944820)
Strongly disagreeing. Which of us has not privately cursed their job at some point in frustration? The consequences for letting fly some profanity privately as an expression of human emotion cannot be so high in any reasonable civilization.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by wil421 on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:02PM (#26944946)
How’s it any different from writing a letter to 25 coworkers saying F** my employer? If one of the 25 recipients showed the letter to my employer I’d be fired.

How’s a private snap any different than a private letter?

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by thissorthatt on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:09PM (#26945033)
The employer is not bound by the 1st Amendment. Whereas the school (functioning as a part of the government) is.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by nitrogen on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:31PM (#26946925)
Communicating with coworkers about workplace conditions could be a protected labor activity.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by shadowgovt on Monday April 26, 2021 @04:20PM (#26947548)
Protected labor activities are protected in the US by Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act, not by the Constitution.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by teawrecks on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:56PM (#26947230)
What would/should actually happen in this case is HR/the manager would meet with the employee and ask them to vent any apparent frustrations. If the statement was made publicly, they would probably be fired outright for making public statements about the employer without permission. If it's only internal, they wouldn't be fired outright, but they will likely be passed over for promotion. Makes sense, why should a company invest in someone who apparently isn't invested in the company? If they are ever fired, the reason given would be for some other unrelated infraction that they are legally allowed to terminate for.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by teawrecks on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:20PM (#26946791)
The difference is, one is a private company that you are gainfully employed at of your own volition. The other is a public school that students are legally obligated to attend. The two have nothing to do with each other.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by lostlogin on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:39PM (#26947026)
> How’s a private snap any different than a private letter?

I thought that letters had a copyright? The recipient has ownership but cannot publish. If they do copy and distribute (as a screenshot of a Snapchat message) does this not break copyright?

Edit: In New Zealand (where I am), an employer screenshooting and distributed an employee’s Facebook messages breached privacy laws. https://privacy.org.nz/tools/knowledge-base/view/366

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by mannerheim on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:54PM (#26947212)
Copyright generally doesn't protect usage of a work in criticism of it, even if it is basically verbatim usage without added commentary. I think Hughes v. Benjamin is salient here.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by anaerobicover on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:09PM (#26945045)
I believe that I have not made my point clearly: simply, you should not be fired for that letter.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by virgil_disgr4ce on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:14PM (#26945107)
The snap self-destructs. The correct analogy would be showing a photo of the letter to others.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by wnoise on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:33PM (#26945332)
The by-default ephemeral nature?
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by kstrauser on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:35PM (#26945368)
I don't completely disagree with you, FWIW. I do see it as fundamentally different to gripe about your job to a coworker in your living room or at a bar after work. That's the most natural thing ever. It's a different animal to make a public post telling the world that your company sucks and f- the company and your boss.

In Levy's case, she made a public post (even if she didn't mean for it to be public). And to be clear, I'm not going to judge a 14 year old for doing things that I'd be annoyed with a 30 year old for doing. A kid got frustrated with her school and complained about it? Ooh, stop the presses and clutch some pearls! I have a much harder time sympathizing with people twice her age who complain publicly about how much their job sucks, then complain that their boss has relieved them of the burden of ongoing employment.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by neogodless on Monday April 26, 2021 @04:32PM (#26947690)
I've always thought of Snapchat as "hanging out on your back porch with a beer". On the other hand, I've never sent any Snaps to more than like... 3 people. Sending it to 250 is a bit like hosting the entire class from your school at a party, and then getting on a microphone and saying "F--- all of you and f--- cheer!" and then someone recording that on their phone and showing a coach.

I don't think it's fair to call her action "making a public post" because she did not make it public. Someone else did.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by maxerickson on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:02PM (#26944935)
It's the other way around. Public schools have more obligations than private employers. That a school is obligated to provide the cheerleading experience to a student they "don't approve of" doesn't imply that an employer is obligated to provide employment to anybody, whether they approve of them or not.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by kstrauser on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:38PM (#26945404)
I agree with you on general principles. However, the whole point of this case being in front of SCOTUS is that other courts have ruled that schools aren't obligated to provide that experience. Levy's suing because she disagrees (and I do too).

I think she should be allowed to be a cheerleader even after complaining about her coach and school, as kids are wont to do. Now we'll find out if the courts see it the same way.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by taylodl on Monday April 26, 2021 @02:05PM (#26945813)
I predict the SCOTUS will see cheerleading as an extra-curricular activity outside of the scope for which a public school is obligated to provide and thus may restrict access to that activity in any manner they see fit. If they don't rule it that way then SCOTUS is about to open One Giant Can of Worms.
Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by maxerickson on Monday April 26, 2021 @02:22PM (#26946041)
It would already be subject to Title 9, they have to provide equal access.

The school can certainly argue that all students have to meet the same requirements to participate, which would hinge on whether the student could reasonably anticipate the consequences here (an example where that isn't possible is if the school created and applied a policy for the incident).

My first comment is in response to the people inventing parallels that don't exist at all because schools and work places are very different things and wasn't an attempt to thoroughly examine the specifics. A finding that the existing obligations of the school do apply to this situation is irrelevant to at will employment.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by stale2002 on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:08PM (#26946652)
> in any manner they see fit.

That cannot possibly be true. Here is an example. Imagine if a school banned people from sports, because they expressed support for Obama or Trump.

Clearly that would be a government infringing on people's right to speech, as it is expressely political.

Or imagine that a school gave certain benefits, only to students, who publicly support a certain political candidate. If you don't support their choice of president, you lose privileges or benefits or get expelled.

Or, if we are truly talking about "any manner they see fit", an obvious counter example would be if they just banned women from playing sports.

> is about to open One Giant Can of Worms.

There is no can of worms being opened here. A school is a public institution. How speech laws apply to public institution is not some crazy out there idea. It is well established.

I am not sure why people are making out speech laws, which have a long history of how they apply to public institutions, as some sort of alien topic.

You wouldn't say that a school could expel people, for example, for this kind of speech, out of school. Why is it so crazy, for this to be applied to other activities?

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by mason55 on Monday April 26, 2021 @05:25PM (#26948364)
> A school is a public institution. How speech laws apply to public institution is not some crazy out there idea. It is well established.

Free speech laws apply differently in school. They're not exactly the same as other public institutions, as SCOTUS has ruled numerous times.

Bethel v. Fraser[0] is an example where the Court ruled pretty clearly that the school can go as far as to prohibit sexual innuendo, it doesn't even have to be obscene or vulgar.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_School_District_v._Fras...

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by stale2002 on Monday April 26, 2021 @06:51PM (#26949318)
> They're not exactly the same as other public institutions, as SCOTUS has ruled numerous times.

I didn't say that they were exactly the same. Instead I am saying that there is not some "huge can of worms" that is opened on up this topic, if the supreme court rules in favor of the student in this case.

It is instead something that predictably might happen, and which will have predicable results that are in line with how things work in other examples.

So, in other words, the sky will not fall, and schools will not collapse under the weight of not being allowed to punish students for purely off campus speech.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by mason55 on Monday April 26, 2021 @05:17PM (#26948272)
Schools sort of fall in an area between private employer and government entity. They have to allow more leeway than a private employer (they can't prevent speech just because it makes them uncomfortable) but they can put more limits on speech than the government normally would be allowed (in the interest of the educational mission).

I guess this case is about whether cheerleading falls into the former or latter category.

Re:Cheerleader’s Snapchat rant leads to ‘momentous’ Supreme ... by odessacubbage on Monday April 26, 2021 @11:05PM (#26951500)
she didn't say them about 'her school' though, she expressed the sentiment of 'fuck school' which is pretty much as vague and general as possible. should your employer have grounds to fire you if you, in a private conversation, express dissatisfaction with the concept of 'work'?