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Re:Why Lichess will always be free by dash2 on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:32AM (#26912437)
Use the back button and don't go there again. Website owners need to make a living, they have a right to try to do so the way they see best, and not all consumers share your preferences.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by sildur on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:27AM (#26912769)
I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit, for instance by blocking their ads. If they don't like it, they should make their website private.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by paulcole on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:09AM (#26913866)
> I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit

I see this more as you technically having the ability to do this, but what makes it your “right”?

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by LocalPCGuy on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:41AM (#26914116)
Not the OP, but I have the right to control what code is delivered to (downloaded) and run on my computer.

That doesn't mean I have the right to use a website that decides they aren't good with me doing so without the ads or other portions I may block.

I don't believe I have any moral obligation to make that choice myself. Simply put, I have the right to block ads, and the website has the right to block usage to me if I don't load said ads, trackers, etc.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by paulcole on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:50AM (#26914198)
> Simply put, I have the right to block ads

Let’s assume I agree that you have been tricked into following a link that is infested with terrible ads and that I agree you have the right to block those ads.

Isn’t it then your obligation to never visit that site again?

You understand that ads are how the website has chosen to make money. You don’t like how they have chosen to make money so you simply never visit the website again, right?

It’s like if you found out a restaurant didn’t accept cash and still kept going to eat there when you only had a credit card, knowing in advance you can’t and won’t pay.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by sildur on Friday April 23, 2021 @12:31PM (#26916418)
> Isn’t it then your obligation to never visit that site again?

Not really. As long as your site is public, I can enter. If you don't want that, make it private, or subscription only.

> It’s like if you found out a restaurant didn’t accept cash and still kept going to eat there when you only had a credit card, knowing in advance you can’t and won’t pay.

It's more like going to a public museum that accepts donations and not making a donation. The place is public, and I decide if I pay or not.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by LocalPCGuy on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:27PM (#26919388)
No, how a website monetizes their site is not my concern. Just because they choose ads does not obligate me to decide to not go there again. In fact, due to my technology choices, I may never even realize they have chosen that route as I may never see their ads in the first place.

As a publicly available resource, it is like browsing. I can browse many brick and mortar stores without exchanging anything of value. And like a store, if a website decided they did not want people browsing without a purchase, they could block access.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by ddevault on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:19AM (#26913501)
No one has a right to a viable business model. If it makes a negative impact on society, we can and should regulate it. Ads are a pox on this Earth.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by ratww on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:19AM (#26912709)
Using the back button is not enough.

Even using your method, the website will transmit information about me to several ad networks without my consent about retargeting, about which sites I'm visiting, which sites I visited before (via referrer header) and will fingerprint me. Even with their (mostly non-compliant) GDPR cookie banners, information is still transmitted.

As far as I'm concerned, no website owner has ever given me a choice of "just using the back button".

Only ad-blocking is enough to stop this from happening.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by pabs3 on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:30AM (#26912778)
Your browser is the entity transmitting information to ad networks, your browser is obeying instructions from the website instead of obeying your instructions.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by fsflover on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:31AM (#26912785)
Which happens because you run non-free JS code: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by johannes1234321 on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:35AM (#26913199)
Whether the code is free or not is irrelevant for that.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by tnzm on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:01AM (#26913813)
Is there any other kind of code which can be ascertained to obey its user?
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by johannes1234321 on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:39AM (#26914097)
The question is who audits it etc.

This will become more funny with We assembly. There review isnahrder and even if it is free software it will be ages to verify the code the server delivers matches the source.

There is a fundamental control issue where a license debate is irrelevant detour. (For me this is the biggest flaw in the FSF - they haven't grasped that yet, while smart ideas would be needed)

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by fsflover on Friday April 23, 2021 @09:06AM (#26914344)
> The question is who audits it etc.

The question is whether it is auditable and improvable. This is what free software is for.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by tnzm on Monday April 26, 2021 @07:38AM (#26941446)
Provided a malicious host could take measures to serve the auditors a binary that matches the source, and something entirely different for everyone else, I know of no good way to confirm that a remotely served binary corresponds to the published source.

That's why the FSF takes a stand against what it calls "software as a service substitute". Technically, they are correct, for the reason stated above. An Internet that is pure protocol, with clients for remote services being local apps, is not difficult to imagine; in fact, that's how it started and that's how it still works.

What's different is the friction of running an embedded blob from a webpage is negligible compared to installing a package on your OS, therefore the "distribution" phase of the software lifecycle is effectively factored out, making the opportunity for user choice minimal. (Unless you run NoScript or LibreJS by default, which I support.)

Economically, SaaS is the path of least resistance. You deliver your product through the same platform that people use to browse cat pics, and it works invisibly enough that users never question whether it's doing the right thing. This creates ample opportunity for externalities to be dumped onto the end user, as we observe with the nascent privacy crisis.

Perhaps such an externality is of a sufficiently complex or speculative nature that users may not be able to identify it, or willing to care. But that doesn't mean it's ruled out; at least in theory, integrating with the existing legal system by way of distributing your code under a Libre license seems like a good way to nip possible shenanigans in the bud. (As far as your code is concerned, of course - as opposed to everyone else's non-free code out there.)

Of course, everyone is free to do what they think best, but it's good to have the FSF's radical evangelism as a point of reference - it's quite possible to do meaningful computing in this way, although maybe not as part of an organization that ignores the ethical underpinnings of its methods! (And that's what computers do best nowadays: algowashing.)

Sadly, I find the FSF's approach to the Web somewhat misplaced - for software that is neither locally deployed, nor accessed as an opaque service, but remotely delivered on-demand, focus should be on the delivery chain being auditable, and source maps being available, in the case of WASM and minified JS.

Instead, we get LibreJS, which is, as far as I can see, a license-based whitelist - regardless of the fact that non-minified JS is open-source by definition and never compiled to a binary form. The GPL doesn't make a whole lot of sense for embedded scripts, powerful as they are. It would be more relevant for WebAssembly, that's for sure.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by tnzm on Monday April 26, 2021 @10:03AM (#26942592)
FIX: it's actually "service as a software substitute", not the other way around.

FSF could benefit from catchier nomenclature, even the "free as in blah blah" is too complex for the knee-jerk thinking cultivated in consumers; why couldn't they have called it "freedomware" or some such, I can't help but wonder; it was born in the same epoch as "shareware", "freeware", etc.

"Libre" is cute but causes associations with communism in the American public - same core userbase that is happy with shooting people in the name of "freedom", and would be proud to promote "freedomware", unlike today.

Re:Why Lichess will always be free by paxys on Friday April 23, 2021 @12:39PM (#26916508)
There are many free and open source ad trackers out there.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by tnzm on Monday April 26, 2021 @07:15AM (#26941336)
The "user" in this scenario would be the advertiser. While I have little sympathy for ads, and dread the emergent effects of behavioral tracking, a self-deployed ad tracker could at least be trusted by the advertiser who seeks to benefit from it, as opposed to serving the interests of its vendor first and foremost.
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by fsflover on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:38AM (#26913217)
Any examples of free JS doing that?
Re:Why Lichess will always be free by pabs3 on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:03AM (#26913832)
Any kind of requests can be used for tracking purposes, not just JS.