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Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by hanspagel on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:16AM (#26911203)
Hi, co-creator of tiptap here and the one who wrote the heading:

We went with “renderless” for tiptap v1, but this is not really correct and a lot of people switched to “headless”.

Give me a better word that’s know to more people, I’d love to change it!

With web artisans I wanted to point out it’s for people who really care about every detail.

If you just want to slap in an editor and that’s it: tiptap is not for you. If you want to really customize every aspect of the editor: You should definitely consider using tiptap.

Edit: typo

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by lelanthran on Friday April 23, 2021 @02:41AM (#26911664)
> Give me a better word that’s know to more people, I’d love to change it!

Thank you for being flexible :-)

Headless literally means "gui-less" (without a gui) and has had the same meaning since 1998 or so so it's probably not a good idea to reuse the word to mean something else in the same context.

I would go with either "style-less" (which is a bit awkward to say") or "effortless", which is better even if not totally accurate.

With "effortless" you fully capture how easy it is to use.

> With web artisans I wanted to point out it’s for people who really care about every detail.

You can keep artisan - it looks correct in this context.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by hanspagel on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:13AM (#26912326)
tiptap comes without a graphical user interface. It’s an API and you have to build the gui. Are you sure headless is so wrong?
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by nmstoker on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:05AM (#26913844)
Yes, I'm confident it's wrong because it re-use a word in a way that will confuse. It implies it'll be used without a GUI and the first thought is not to think "oh, they must mean it doesn't come with its own GUI". Lots of others things that have an API do not get called headless - presumably as they're aware of the existing use of headless and thus don't want to confuse people.

Maybe you could explain it's a backend for an editor.

Or maybe "unstyled"?

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by lelanthran on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:18AM (#26912349)
> tiptap comes without a graphical user interface. It’s an API and you have to build the gui. Are you sure headless is so wrong?

Unless I misunderstood the example, all you have to do is instantiate it to make it work with a default look.

If "using the API" is headless, then everything is headless because they all have an API, including things like Qt, WxWidgets, etc. This is obviously not the case.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by hanspagel on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:45AM (#26912514)
3 out of 80 examples have styling applied for demo purposes.

The package comes without CSS and markup as explained on the frontpage.

> Headless > It’s headless and comes without any CSS. You are in full control over markup, styling and behaviour

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by kemayo on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:37PM (#26917144)
Headless is definitely wrong.

I saw the title of this story and assumed that tiptap was going to be a component that somehow backed up various WYSIWIG editor-clients. That would be headless. (It's even useful -- the transaction system + collaboration server is theoretically a thing that could back up other clients, after all, though in practice it's going to force enough design decisions onto the clients that it's not really worth it.)

Tiptap does come with a graphical user interface, insofar as it looks like the most minimal possible use of it (from your "Minimal setup" example) will create a contenteditable surface to write in. Said surface is the "head".

I'd consider "flexible", "customizable", or "unopinionated". "Unstyled" was suggested, but although it's true I think it's misleading -- the need to construct your own toolbar goes beyond what that implies.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by nulbyte on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:04AM (#26913411)
> It’s an API and you have to build the gui.

It has an API, but after a quick peek at the page, I wouldn't say it 'is' an API. I'd call it a library.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by gumby on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:08AM (#26914926)
Do the entry points of a library no longer constitute its “API”? That is the very origin of the term.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by bryanrasmussen on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:14AM (#26911934)
effortless is great, I was going to say completely customizable but effortless is better.

Styleless is bad because to be without style is to be bad.

the effortless editor you can customize every aspect of.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by growt on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:19AM (#26911974)
effortless sounds good, but is it really true here? If I have to style the complete editor myself that sounds like a lot of effort. I would go in the direction of "The fully customizable editor" or something similar.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by minusf on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:22AM (#26912372)
doesn't effortless mean exactly the opposite? drop in, fire and forget.

"non-opinionated WYSISWYG Text Editor" ?

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by hanspagel on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:47AM (#26912520)
tiptap is very powerful, but definiteley not for people looking for an effortless solution. Yes, that’s what I think too.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by nightowl_games on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:27AM (#26911269)
"Styleless"

Headless means a command line program without a GUI.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by bitwize on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:43AM (#26911335)
Back in my day, "headless" meant a computer without a monitor, for example a server or a PC that had been repurposed to server duty.

We also had the opposite: before Xrandr or Xinerama, there was an older X feature called "Zaphod Mode" that allowed you to drive a graphics card's multiple outputs (on cards that supported such) mapping each to a different X "screen", Zaphod Beeblebrox, of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, had two heads, you see.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by m3ta4a on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:51AM (#26911369)
"Headless" can also refer to a browser that doesn't render to the screen, useful for automated integration tests.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by gman83 on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:03AM (#26911844)
Yeah I think the Jamstack folks have decided to use headless in an entirely different way. For example search for headless CMS you'll find loads of CMSs that just run on a server and use an API to talk to the client, but they're just web pages.

It just means not WordPress I think in this context.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by hanspagel on Friday April 23, 2021 @01:50AM (#26911364)
Then it’s styleless and markupless (that’s not a word, is it?), too.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by mkl on Friday April 23, 2021 @02:54AM (#26911785)
Well I'm probably not really in the target audience, so take my confusion with a grain of salt if those are widely used terms among those who are. The list of features in your other comment does sound pretty appealing though. Maybe the site should have something like that as a column down the side or something - I would have immediately understood instead of coming here and complaining about headlines!

I'd call it "stylable", "freely stylable", "add your own CSS", "DIY CSS" or similar, as they seem like they mean what you're talking about even to people who haven't run into them before.

Artisanal to me suggests obviously handmade and deliberately unpolished (as a stylistic choice, not a negative). The immediate image that sprang to mind was pottery with finger marks in it, so I was a bit lost with "web artisan". The strengths of tiptap seem to be the flexibility and customisability, and realtime collaboration, so a word that got that sort of thing across would communicate more.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by SahAssar on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:50AM (#26912182)
Style-agnostic is probably what I would go with.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by austinjp on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:23AM (#26912377)
Instead of "headless", which I agree is confusing, perhaps instead: bare-bones; unstyled; fully customisable; extensible; unopinionated (maybe).

"Artisan" seems fine, although it's slightly obscure. Perhaps instead: control-freak; obsessive; perfectionist. They are somewhat negative, but they're also points of pride for some.

So for example: tiptap, the fully customisable editor for website perfectionists.

Just some suggestions :)

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by gumby on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:10AM (#26914956)
I use headless editors every day, mainly ed and sed. This appears to have little relationship to that word.

It still can be a good product, but it would be more useful to have a description that reflected its use and benefit.

Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by yoshyosh on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:18AM (#26913077)
headless instantly made sense to me, I was thinking of it like contentful/headless shopify even if there is a little bit of a gui. I interpreted it as something I'd have maximum control over in just one word.
Re:Headless WYSISWYG Text Editor – tiptap editor by d0gbread on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:21PM (#26920853)
Makes sense to me too. Given all the attempts at alternatives that don't quite work, I'd fully support an evolution of what headless means and hope to see other libraries about it. The context makes it pretty obvious.