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Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by stopBurncoins on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:54PM (#26893129)
> Renewable power generation from wind and solar has a much higher ratio of wasted power because they have such high variability in output. Because of this, in cases where the power generally can't be cost effectively stored or supplemented (by dynamic increase of dirtier energy), wind and solar simply won't be built in favor of coal plants. Bitcoin mining can use this wasted energy, which increases the revenue that can be generated by renewable sources, thus making it more likely that areas will choose renewable over coal.

So you think that cities will just put up with the increasing power outages, until the miners will give up in that region? That the normal public won't form a mob asking for more power in the night, which will attract more miners, thus making the whole point moot?

That looks like a weird gamble to make

> Bitcoin mining is a fixed quantity: so the more mining done using renewable energy, the less will be done with coal power (so when SamBam mocked this paper by saying "If we double the amount of electricity used on the planet, people will need to spend more on solar panels!" He completely didn't understand the zero sum aspect of bitcoin mining).

no, bitcoin has a fixed max of coin, but we already are at the point where the only limit is how to get the hardware to mine. There is no limit on mining.

Sure, it will shift more towards cheap power. But that needs to be also continuous. So bitcoin will drive the adoption of more continuous power, because if you do not do it, cities power will be a collateral damage more and more often.

> In fact, this has a more pronounced effect because players in the market who aren't as efficient can see their margins decrease below the point of profitablity. Since otherwise wasted electricity is cheapest, more and more bitcoin mining will be done using it, which means less and less will be done using usable electricity.

All this talk about using "waste" electricity is only relevant if your system never goes above max usage, thus causing power outages. That is already not true, and it's not like the power companies allocate only the "waste" electricity to bitcoin. Nobody stops mining when the power plant is near capacity. You just generate more pressure to add more power plants that give continuous power (so: not solar).

We have "waste" electricity because the system is designed to handle peaks and other plants going down.

Mining is eating away all the safety margin on the system. the more there is, the more it will eat

Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by billytetrud on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:05PM (#26893273)
> you think that cities will just put up with the increasing power outages

I have no idea how that relates to anything I have said. Nothing I'm suggesting would lead to power outages...

> There is no limit on mining.

That's patently false. The limit on bitcoin mining is the amount of money that can be earned by mining. That is currently around 7.5 btc per block. That is the limit. Miners don't mine for a loss.

> Nobody stops mining when the power plant is near capacity.

You're simply not correct. There's even people who only mine for the purpose of generating cheap heat: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coindesk.com/mining-bitcoin...

Please do more research if you're gonna discuss this with people. Or read the damn paper the OP posted.

Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by smolder on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:24PM (#26893537)
No one mines specifically to make heat, they get heat as a bonus from computing in cold climates, which was always true. If we're going to do that, I propose we heat our houses with seti@home or folding@home. It would be more useful.
Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by billytetrud on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @03:48PM (#26894517)
Bitcoin stands to be one of the most useful pieces of technology since the internet. It has the potential to take the power to abuse money out of the hands of governments and central banks. The inquality caused by central banks in this world is attrocioius - a tragedy of epic proportions. Bitcoin can prevent this from happening again. But right.. maybe the search for aliens is more important.. how could I have been so short sighted.
Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by kreetx on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:15PM (#26894866)
If you have a choice between a radiator and a miner, then you do mine to make the heat. The added btc (or any other) is a bounus which perhaps helps to cover the electricity. Since the bulk of mining is done in specialized facilities then home-mining can be about heat (plus tinkering/hobby).
Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by smolder on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @08:13PM (#26897051)
That's oversimplifying a little. Miners are much more expensive than radiators, so again, the heat is the bonus, you are investing in mining equipment, not a heater, and the resources for making said mining equipment are much more than what it costs to make a heater. Using old junk equipment works but won't make you much.

It's also less efficient than a normal heater, especially compared to heat pumps. The difference is only made up in mining, which is itself a super inefficient process, as we know. Less so when you use them as heaters... but they aren't great heaters.

Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by kreetx on Friday April 23, 2021 @03:51AM (#26912187)
Perhaps it's not that simple, true. What I meant was that there are people who need to heat a room, but are hobby IT people. So instead of getting a radiator they put a mining rig in the room. It won't mine in any substantial amount and won't generate a massive profit, perhaps just pays for the electricity. What I'm just saying is that people do mine in a situation where heat is primary and the rest is hobby.

Also, as the sibling says, miners are just as efficient as radiators for the same amount of electricity. Heat pumps are another story, they don't generate heat from electricity but transfer it from somewhere else.

Re:Square: Bitcoin Is Key to an Abundant, Clean Energy Future by billytetrud on Thursday April 22, 2021 @12:37PM (#26904766)
> It's also less efficient than a normal heater,

If you're saying that "normal heaters" produce more heat for a given amount of electric usage, that is absolutely wrong. Yes heat pumps are more efficient, but those are not "normal heaters". Sounds like you're either being disingenuous or you have a misunderstanding of basic physics.