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Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ClumsyPilot on Friday April 16, 2021 @02:40PM (#26837519)
"The same reason you can’t put software you want on a Xbox/PlayStation/Switch."

Stop using this argument, its daft and convinces noone.

Furstly, which law or court case actually establishes that those business practices are right and proper?

Secondly, which law or court case establishes that smartphones can be equated with game consoles? There is a huge body of law that governs mobile connectivity, spectrum, emergency services, etc. that has no bearing on a gaming device.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by kabdib on Friday April 16, 2021 @02:55PM (#26837680)
>>"The same reason you can’t put software you want on a Xbox/PlayStation/Switch."

> Stop using this argument, its daft and convinces noone.

Letting anyone put any software they wanted on an Xbox/Playstation/Switch would diminish the platform's value by eroding security and trust.

For instance, compare online cheating ecosystems between those three platforms and the PC (where you can run any software you want). The PC is a much, much worse platform in terms of cheaters, scammers and account hijacks.

I have no problem with people running whatever they want on the hardware they purchase, but extending that to "I should also be allowed to be trusted when I do this" does not logically follow. In other words, feel free to reflash your Xbox, but don't expect to be able to play games or connect to your Xbox Live account from that hardware after your jailbreak.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ClumsyPilot on Friday April 16, 2021 @03:06PM (#26837828)
That is totally irrelevant.

This about not allowing competing browsers as a blanket policy. If this was trully about security, Apple can do as many security audits as they want. They can even charge for them. They can require affidavit, security officers, insurance policy, indemnity, etc.

But they dont because this is not about security, it is about controling the market

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by kabdib on Friday April 16, 2021 @03:57PM (#26838418)
Not allowing arbitrary code on a platform is hardly an irrelevant point. It's a fundamental architectural decision that makes deep statements about what a platform can do, and who has permission to do it. These decisions define both business models AND features such as user security and trustworthiness.

For instance, to be competitive in terms of performance, a browser almost certainly needs to JIT Javascript. If a platform prevents apps from generating code and enabling the 'X' bit in PTEs then this isn't going to work. Even if the platform provides JIT services (e.g., pass in an AST, out pops a few pages of callable code) there is still a ton of added risk.

Designing and maintaining the security of a platform is a ton of work and a big investment (assuming it's done well). Security teams are already quite busy, and adding whole app categories that are suddenly able to break previously established design decisions is not easy -- "just do a security audit on a handful of titles" is a phrase that we've all heard, many times, and it sends shivers down our spines. Having seen it tried, and been on some projects that did it, I think it's impossible to do well even at a small scale.

Been there, done that, seen projects canceled because PMs couldn't internalize the nature of the risk to the platform.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by bun_at_work on Friday April 16, 2021 @03:26PM (#26838056)
Controlling what market? The browser market?

A large part of Apple's brand, at this point, is security from snooping, personal privacy, etc etc. It makes sense to control the browser on the iPhone for privacy than it does to seek to eliminate browser competitors. Safari isn't a crucial part of their revenue, devices with the security promise are. Furthermore, the browser seems to be the key space where use privacy is violated from, via cookies and other tracking software. If Apple want's to say they have a pro-privacy device, controlling the browser makes sense for that goal.

It just doesn't make business sense for Apple to be attempting to control the browser market. Maybe you mean they are controlling some other market through the browser, though.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by anfilt on Saturday April 17, 2021 @12:28AM (#26841582)
Apple does not own the hardware, why do they have any say what software I choose to execute.

Moreover, when one is selling something that involves transferring all rights in tangible/real property being sold to be transfered. Here apple is reserving the right to decide what can and cant run on the device. This clearly is a violation of property rights. Last I checked apple did not have people sign rent/lease agreements for the hardware.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by kabdib on Saturday April 17, 2021 @11:39AM (#26845051)
Apple definitely has a say in how its software is run. IOS is licensed for use on Apple-branded devices, with further stipulations requiring, amongst other things, that it remain unmodified (it's right there in the EULA).

I'll be the last one to prevent you from running your own software on the hardware you bought. So, knock yourself out: Wipe all the nasty, evil Apple software off of that device and have your way with it. I would not expect any help from Apple about how to do this.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ClumsyPilot on Saturday April 17, 2021 @02:21PM (#26846291)
"I would not expect any help from Apple about how to do this."

This argument is straight up disingenuous- Apple is actively preventing you from running whatever you want on your property and they are preventing you from repairing it. You cannot get them to remove their crap from it.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by anfilt on Saturday April 17, 2021 @09:46PM (#26849094)
The hardware still will not run any software that is not signed by apple. So even if I wanted to run linux on the device, I can't. The software EULA is not the problem. It's how they are controlling the underlying hardware.
Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by Terretta on Sunday April 18, 2021 @09:56AM (#26852514)
Speaking of these devices, software is just virtual hardware, hardware is just statically fixed software. It’s all just patterns of logic gates configured to operate other cartridges of capability.

Conjuring up some arbitrary boundary constrains device maker innovation, reliability, security, and other consumer value.

You are free to pick your own water line, find a device that draws the line there, and vote with your wallet — or make and market your own thesis.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ben_w on Friday April 16, 2021 @02:43PM (#26837554)
I believe the principal is that everything which is not banned is legal. This probably has a funky Latin translation, but I don’t know as I’m not a lawyer.
Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ClumsyPilot on Friday April 16, 2021 @03:22PM (#26838011)
John has gone to the pub, a random person gave him $5,000 and said he can keep half if he transfers the rest to Bob. Later it turned out it was drug money.

The question in court will not be "is money laundering illegal" or "is taking money from random people illegal". The question in court will be "does this amount to money laundering, or is john just an idiot and it was not his responsibility to know".

Similarly, here we are discussing not "is market manipulation illegal", but "does the activity carried out by Apple amount to market manipulation"

Comparing Apple to game consoles is basically: "stop selling drugs" - "John does it too, and he is not in jail, so it's fine."

That argument only works if John has been to court and a judge has ruled that he is innocent. That's case law - it established that previously, in similar circumstances, a court has rules that this was / wasn't a crime.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by dredmorbius on Friday April 16, 2021 @03:44PM (#26838277)
Mens rea.
Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by ClumsyPilot on Friday April 16, 2021 @08:26PM (#26840534)
Strict liability, duty of care and ignorantia juris non excusat.
Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by dredmorbius on Friday April 16, 2021 @08:59PM (#26840716)
Right.

Mens rea ("guilty mind") itself is not a uniformly applied principle. But it's the name of the concept you were attempting to address above.

See also actus reus ("guilty act").

And note that in tort liability (as opposed to criminal liability) other standards may apply. "Strict liabilty" is more typically applied in civil law, though there are (I learned responding here) some applications in criminal law as well. In the latter case it seems to be similar to my understanding of prima facie violation. That is, the fact of a thing is a violation of law, regardless of intent.

Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by throwaway2048 on Saturday April 17, 2021 @07:05AM (#26843320)
Antitrust law is a civil matter, not a criminal one.
Re:U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crac... by dredmorbius on Saturday April 17, 2021 @01:56PM (#26846115)