Long term, Kotlin will only stay relevant on Android.

They cannot fully embrace the JVM while targeting ART, JS and native at the same time.

With respect, you're wrong. I say this because we're now seeing widespread adoption of serverside Kotlin at places like Google and Amazon. With the support of Google and Jetbrains they can target whatever they want.

With respect, welcome to the Kotlin version of #ifdef, where language features depend on the underlying runtime.

That 3D graphics library using SIMD and value types from JVM on ART or JS?

Good luck achieving the same perfomance and memory semantics.

Kotlin/Native has already been rebooted as its memory model was incompatbile with JVM libraries.

It’s worked out ok for scala (though i don’t think anyone cares about it for android). Obviously a lot of code that only works on the JVM, because a lot of people just don’t care about native/js. But most core libraries will have ‘shared’ pure scala code and then have the platform specific implementations in separate folders. This is all fairly standardized with sbt plugins to do all the heavy lifting.

From the app side you just don’t use classes that you can’t use?

It will be interesting to see how things like Valhalla and Loom will pan out.

Did it?

The main company behind Scala changed its name and now also offers Java consulting.

Unless the project requires Spark, there is little reason to even care Scala exists.

Then there is the version 3.0 where they started having brain damaged ideas like changing the whole syntax.

Scala today is Kotlin in 10 years.

One benefit of being old in this industry is having survived multiple fashion waves of guest languages on each platform, then watching how those guest languages fade while the platform languages adopt some of their features.

Or even how whole platforms become irrelevant making it a complete moot point regarding whose languages are on the platform.

How is Kotlin going to support the SIMD interface? It really sounds like #ifdef for every platform, unfortunately.

Definitely. There has been a consistent increase in non-Android Kotlin jobs in the last 12 months according to Indeed.com.

Back in 2010…

There has been a consistent increase in Scala jobs in the last 12 months according to Indeed.com

What's the state of server-side Kotlin now, is it usable and what kind of JVM are cloud hosts running it on? Kotlin seems like one of the best languages out there.

We use it in production with spring boot and deploy a single jar file on azure. Works pretty well

We're using Kotlin with Spring at the moment and everyone on the team prefers it over Java. I suggested Kotlin when they laughed at my suggestion of using Clojure. Ah well.

Kotlin is widely used internally at Amazon. In both AWS and retail.

Not only usable, but becoming very widely used. It's no different from Java for deployment.

Yes, I think today the languages worth focusing on are Kotlin, Swift and C#. They are similar in many ways and come with built-in nullability. They are also platform languages offering excellent tooling and a productive development environment.

Are there many companies seriously using Kotlin for large projects outside of the Android space?

Yes, our stack is Spring Boot + Kotlin on the back side, TypeScript + Vuejs on the front. We’ve millions of unique visitors each month, and we’re pretty satisfied with the stack.

Cash App uses Kotlin Multiplatform, including server-side code, https://kotlinlang.org/lp/mobile/case-studies/cash-app

Google, Amazon, hundreds of F 500's

Absolutely. Kotlin is *widely* used for backend code at Amazon.

Yes

JVM != Java.

We are talking about Java as a language, not the JVM as a platform.

You can also run Python on the JVM.

Although, some Java compromises are definitely linked to the JVM.

>You can also run Python on the JVM.

Jython is stuck on 2.7 and unmaintained.

Graal's implementation of python is maintained and up to date with python 3.