As someone who sometimes struggles with social stuff, join a club has never been useful advice for me. Its never worked out well, i'm not sure where y'all live where there are actually interesting clubs, and they're pretty awkward environments generally imo.

I've had better luck with do something with a more structured environment. E.g. take an in person class (something not work related. Learn sign language or something) but that takes $$$ and ymmv.

I think it used to be difficult to find decent clubs outside of school, but sites like meetup have tons of different groups. Language meetups are particularly plentiful. They are different from a class, but they are always open to people of various levels.

Honestly, i found clubs to be uncomfortable social interactions, even in university (actually, even in high school, and grade school). Maybe they're just not for me. Anyhow i found other ways to fulfil my social needs.

Fair enough, not everyone learns in the same way.

You are right that clubs will feel awkward, for the first 2-3 months anyway. But they will also challenge you to improve your social skills.

I've tried out meetup.com and went to one meetup. It was ok. I felt a little uncomfortable though. They solicited for my name, and email to be added to the Slack. There was a lot of recreational clubs etc at my college. I tried rock climbing, and liked it. There wasn't a lot of social interaction with rock climbing though. I went to a party in Austin. Chatted with strangers etc. Wasn't really sure what else to talk about. I've read somewhere that asking strangers for the time might be a good exercise to become more comfortable talking with people.

I asked people that for a while. Except when one guy responded "It's time to get a watch" lol, I became blushed and kinda embrassed. I saw a comment recommending How to Win Friend and Influence People which I definitely want to read.

The secret to being a good conversationalist is to have the other person do most of the talking, and everyone's favorite thing to talk about is themselves.

Being, and therefore appearing, genuinely interested in what the other person is saying about themselves creates the best feelings in the world for the other person, and you won't run out of things to talk about.

"You just got a new dog? Cool!"

Then you can ask any follow up question you like.

What kind? What's their name? Where'd you get them from? Do you feed them "people food"?.. etc.

One question at a time of course, and avoid queuing them up in your head. When the other person is talking, try very hard not to think of the next thing you're going to say. If you do that, you'll miss what they're actually saying and eventually say something that makes it clear you weren't listening. Similarly, you'll miss out on each new bit of the conversation, and those new bits are the basis of new, honest, follow up questions.

You don't have to be interested in dogs generally, to be interested in them temporarily. "Being interested, intentionally" is a skill you can improve.

Don't try to direct the flow of the conversation too much either. Go into your next conversation with friends, family, coworkers, or strangers with a truly open mind about what you're going to talk about, with no agenda, and be happy knowing it could change at any time.

Your job is to listen and ask more.

A lot of supposed "conversations" are just two people looking at each other, waiting for their turn to talk. If you're going to do that you might as well each write your sentences down beforehand, exchange them, and then throw them away without reading them.

The truth is, nobody wants to hear what you have to say. They don't want to hear what I have to say. They want to tell you about what's going on in their lives and what's important to them.

I hear people say this so much and it's so incredibly not true for me but I dunno if I'm different, they're all full of it, or both.

Serious question.

Which parts of it aren't true for you?

Have you found that making extra effort to be interested in the other person's ideas / topics / interests, listening carefully, etc. isn't well received?

Or is "nobody wants to hear what you have to say" not true, because you do care what other people have to say, for example? (Obviously that's great if so)

Or something else?

I ask because I started making that kind of effort a couple years ago, slowly but surely, getting better as I went. I didn't tell anybody, but after about a year one friend was like, "you know, you're interested in what we do and you really care. Nobody else does that." And another friend chimed in and agreed. (And I really do care! Sure it's intentional, but it's like eating healthy food, and then you grow to like it)

They were being serious. So if you believe me when I'm telling you this, it has been true for me and those friends.

I also think it's true that most people are oblivious to the extra mental effort that goes into approaching conversations this way, and just leave thinking "finally, someone who gives my ideas the credit and attention they are due. Now if I could just get everyone else to act that way"

And that's fine with me

For me, it's inaccurate in that I don't really like to talk about myself - especially ad hoc. And some friends really are interested in what's going on in my life (and I need to push myself to share more).

I find are two types of people - talkers and non-talkers. There is significant but not complete overlap with introverts and extroverts, but some introverts are talkers if they can get someone who will actually listen - others won't really talk regardless, and really prefer to let the other person carry the conversation (or companionable silence, or end the conversation).

Conversation skills differ depending on the pairing - but everyone appreciates someone who listens to understand, not just waits while thinking about what they will say next.

Talker with another talker - listen, ask occasional questions, and give the other person lots of chances to talk. Reduce how much you share.

Talker with a non-talker: Also listen, ask occasional questions, but don't expect too much response - but keep trying to draw out more & find things the other person wants to talk about. Be willing to carry more than your half of the conversation, but that comes naturally, so be careful not to dominate.

Non-talker with a talker: The talkers will love you if you listen! Be attentive, follow along, give verbal and non-verbal acknowledgements and reactions, ask questions, push yourself to share more and "hold up your end of the conversation".

Non-talker with another non-talker. This is rough. You have to pretend you're a talker and carry more than half the conversation. Share more. Work harder to get questions and listen, consider, and ask follow-up questions. It can be really helpful to have questions and topics prepared in advance (good conversation doesn't have to be extemporaneous).

Right? My conversation problems all stem from my own dislike of talking about myself.

I think this is a misunderstanding of the advice. I don’t particularly like talking about my life because I live it, and it’s mostly pretty boring. But I do like discussing certain topics. The advice is to find what the other person like discussing, and discuss it in a way that makes them feel you are listening to their point of view.

Personally I don’t think I’ve ever really failed when I use this approach. You can go in with something as direct as, “so, what topic would you like to talk about?” And more often than not have a good conversation.

Even more reason to let the other person talk about themself if they enjoy it.

If both of you dislike talking about yourselves then try to explain something about a subject that you find interesting.

Edit: I want to add that not liking something does not mean you can't be good at it.

Which part isn't true for you?

Oh geez. Please don't let strangers on the internet diagnose you.

They seem to be open to it, and pretty desperate for advice since they've already tried a lot of things. I'm sure a lot of advice is wrong but maybe some of it will help!

How To Win Friends is a great book for fine tuning interpersonal skills in adversarial situations such as sales calls and job interviews. It's worth a read. But I wouldn't recommend it as something to internalize for actually making friends. It mostly teaches how to seem empathetic as leverage in negotiations. It's more important IMO to develop real empathy through routinely putting yourself in other people's shoes, both when interactimg with them and when passively observing situations.

> How To Win Friends is a great book for fine tuning interpersonal skills ... I wouldn't recommend it as something to internalize for actually making friends.

I would even argue this book can harm your friendships. Really, the whole book is only about friendships that you try to seek value from. That said, there are tons of books worth reading. The therapist can most likely recommend books that are really useful for "homework".

FWIW at some point in my life I also realized I need to improve my social circle and went for asking for the time and all that. Please don't do that, consult with your therapist and just learn by doing otherwise. People tend to think there is one way a person has to be.

Anyways, it's really bad with Covid right now but once that's over, there'll be plenty of opportunity to go to real Meetups, public events and all that.

> They solicited for my name, and email to be added to the Slack.

Your terminology here says a lot, right?

If you are going to a meetup to meet people, then the whole point is to get to know people. And yes, that will involve them knowing your name, and communicating with you.

To open up your job prospects: realize this is normal and desirable.

Whoa, personal attacks like that will get you banned on HN. No more of this, please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Wtf how is this any different than other people in the thread calling the OP creepy and autistic?

Hmm I would give rock climbing another shot, pandemic aside rock climbing especially at gyms is very social, I’ve even quit gyms because some are more akin to night clubs than climbing gyms.

Bouldering? Ask for beta or work a problem with someone. Top rope or sport? The gym should have a program for people looking for belay partners.

Give it another shot

As someone who has struggled their entire life with feeling like I don't understand people, I feel your pain.

I don't know what kind of climbing you were doing, but I've found bouldering very social. Bouldering problems are short and very intense so you spend most of your time sitting on the mat resting, which inevitably leads to conversation. If you don't have a group to go with or haven't tried bouldering, but would like to continue climbing, I would recommend taking a group bouldering class or the like once COVID dies down. That's a good way to meet people who like the sport and are the same level as you.

This might be a little presumptuous as I don't know anything about you, but since you're in Texas - church/temple/synagogueetc is also a great option if you want to meet people. People want you to join their church so they will be friendly and make an effort to welcome you. Many churches have coffee or small refreshments after the service just so people can socialize. There may even be programs, planned social activities, bible studies or whatnot for new members. This is my bias but I would go to a non-denominational Christian church, the crowd is likely to be younger, more diverse, more interesting, and the music will sound like it's from this century. If you don't like the people, the particular church, or just simply learn that you don't believe in God, you can always just leave, you have no obligation to stay. I myself don't attend church anymore but I must admit they are astoundingly effective social support structures. If you've ever been curious in any way about religion you might as well try it.

So what you need to do in that situation is smile and happily give your name + email, then set aside an hour a week to chat with people in that slack channel.

Parties are not really good places to learn social skills, people are generally partially drunk and behave differently than they would anywhere else.

Look at this list of hobbies [1], pick two that you think looks interesting and has a club in your local area. Then join those clubs and show up at every opportunity. If you are asked to join a special event or help out with something or join a forum/chat room then smile and say "yes, I would love to".

Try to stick with the same club for at least a year.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hobbies

Try more meetups in person, even if they're awkward! Great way to both network for your next job and sharpen your social skills.

Sounds like you have Aspergers or something like that. At most. But you probably were handicapped by homeschooling, unless you were homeschooled because of these social issues.

Obviously it’s not your technical qualifications but something in the way you approach people in interviews. The fact that you say you had to read how to talk to people at a party and couldn’t figure out how to diverge from doing exactly what you read over and over is what tipped me off to think you may be weirding people out.

Honestly, if you were to say “hey I know I have some weirdness but I have the best intentions”... I personally would appreciate that. The first step is acknowledging that and trying to convince the people you’ll work with that it won’t get in the way.

Also in the future, don’t quit a job if you don’t have a backup just because you wanted to get paid more.

Echoing another comment that you might be on the spectrum - and I hope the therapist you mentioned can help you relate to that.

The above comment could almost be a quote from "The Speed of Dark" - a (science) fiction novel by Elizabeth Moon about autism (she has a child on the spectrum).