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Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:41AM (#26821823)
So I bought a Macbook Air with M1 that I used for 3 months and noticed the right speaker cracking issue (apparently this is widespread on forums) and instead of going through the headache of repair service I ended up just tossing it online and buy a new one for <7500Rs in losses which I thought was a good deal. The new one has the same problem (yes I tried everything from restore to different audio but its not subtle and this time its left one wow!) so I contacted Apple to setup a return immediately. But nope! They are offering a replacement to me but the customer support is throwing policies in my face. Its insane that apple offers no refund for its own products.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by baybal2 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:01PM (#26822159)
Aluminium metallurgy strikes back.

That's why I am very hesitant to use it for mass manufactured goods.

ME misses 1 defect showing few months later, and you get n hundred thousand units recall, or worse, the client asking the money back. For a CM it's a complete devastation.

Machining is also very uneconomical unless you can contract high volume machining specialist, but that's impossible for most <1m runs.

Only the biggest PC makers like Asus, and Acer can afford custom casting, and press forging at economical scales, but even they don't go for aluminium everywhere. ASUS for example went with stamped steel shells for some economy models.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Nimitz14 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:55PM (#26823052)
Could you elaborate on this? I thought Aluminium is relatively easy to manipulate (and that's why it's used a lot)? Why wouldn't one use injection molding?
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by oneplane on Thursday April 15, 2021 @01:10PM (#26823273)
That would mostly be limited by tolerances, surface finish and specific alloy used.

When you end up with a part that needs a lot of steps and removes a lot of material you need a machine that is more complicated, more expensive and with a lower throughput than a machine that simply stamps parts out of a sheet, or shapes them through a mandrill.

Casting is a whole other deal, you end up with different properties because the way you cast has different requirements than creating the raw stock. If the part or product you want to make can't match with the results of a cast part (more than just surface finish) you simply can't use casting (until some sort or alloy is found that delivers the required properties).

You can obviously use other methods, i.e. metal injection, or sintering, or you could simply make it out of plastic. Or you make multiple simpler parts and interface them together (screws, glue, welds etc). But all of those are fine from the construction perspective, but not fine from the aesthetic perspective, and those are valid requirements as well.

The manufacturing method generally is selected during a 'design for manufacture' phase, and that phase only comes after you have already established some parameters on the look, feel, and other properties of the product.

If you could just make it out of concrete or a single injected piece of plastic and still meet all the requirements, they would probably do just that (as the process is simpler, cheaper, higher volume etc).

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by baybal2 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:14PM (#26826822)
Aluminium is hard to manipulate...

Fatigue, and failure modes are unpredictable for a lot of alloys.

Machinability, and masleability is usually going in reverse to strength.

Tempering, and annealing to counter the above add to cycle time, and cost.

Some aluminium alloys cold flow.

Aluminium is generally excellent for corrosion resistance against anything you have in your household, but sometimes it isn't.

You can't weld it.

Few things can stick to it.

It's thermal expansion is much bigger than glass, and steel.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by nightcracker on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:50AM (#26821964)
If you know a product is faulty, why did you choose to buy another one?
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by eptcyka on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:53AM (#26822025)
In vain hopes its a bad apple and not the whole harvest?
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:57AM (#26822082)
This was literally the case. But it seems like its not Apple season yet.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by chris37879 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:56AM (#26822054)
I see what you did there.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by chrisseaton on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:00PM (#26822137)
They thought the specific unit was faulty, not the model and its design.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by systemBuilder on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:44AM (#26821860)
In the USA we have a concept of a warrant of merchantability. This implies that if you buy a product that is defective the manufacturer must take it back within a short period usually 30 days or less. No exceptions.

With cars it is slightly different most states have something called a "lemon law." If there are more than three repair attempts in the first 6 months for the same issue and the problem is still not fixed then the manufacturer must offer a full refund.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:53AM (#26822019)
I did return an iPhone when I was in US. It was really easy just walk in and return it for a full refund or credit. I ended up buying a 128gb one instead of 32gb because the experience was great. But this is insane that I can't return something from Apple's own store for a refund.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:12PM (#26822343)
This was back when the 32gb iPhone 7 was much slower than the 128Gb one. But that was more of a performance problem this is straight up problematic.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by AppleIsWeaknes on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:19PM (#26822457)
Expect them to deny for 5 years and only then after many lawsuits you can get a fix.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by alpaca128 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:27PM (#26822586)
...and only for models sold in a specific time period. The rest of the customers have to sue again.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by xtracto on Thursday April 15, 2021 @02:43PM (#26824554)
Aaah I see you experienced Mac ooks 2015 battery issue. Or Macbooks 2016,2017,2018 butterfly keyboard issue.

Not sure why people buy Apple...

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by dkirill on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:01PM (#26822147)
Did you buy it via official reseller? Any reasonable country should have laws in place that will force the company to refund you for the defective goods. In that case Apple' policies shouldn't matter
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by ramraj07 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:31PM (#26822661)
AFAIK India doesn’t have refund policies for defective goods that are widely applicable.

What OP must clarify though is that apples authorised resellers in India do actually perform a good job of replacing defective goods under warranty, which makes getting extended care for apple products in India of paramount importance. Outside of warranty you are so screwed!

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:36PM (#26822746)
I don't know about your experience but I have been buying Apple products here for more than a decade and the authorized service centers only replace iPhones and iPads (and they now repair iPhones) while macs are repair only. But the so called engineers are not well trained and I did have my MBP once that went bad thanks to the poor job they had done. If apple had an official service center I would not bother replacing or returning and just get it repaired since any repair comes with a 90 day warranty.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:34PM (#26822700)
I bought both from Apple's own online store.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by dangus on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:50AM (#26821956)
Edit: apologies, I misread the comment and the “3 months” bit. Apparently (TIL) India has very weak consumer protection laws.

I still think you should take up Apple’s offer to have it repaired/replaced. I guess that’s your only recourse.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by pdpi on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:52AM (#26821999)
OP sold one macbook after 3 months, bought a second one with the same defect, and tried to get that one serviced immediately. That second macbook should've been well within a reasonable returns policy.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by tumblewit on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:10PM (#26822316)
This is correct. I got rid of the original one (I bought that day 1 of M1 launch so I thought it was some initial batch). But this one is only a day old (and more recently imported) and I have spent the last day doing all kinds of troubleshooting. I am in the process of getting a replacement (which they approve) but I don't expect that one to be problem free either (seems like a more serious problem like 2016 displays failing after a while). Nonetheless if they can accept a replacement they should have some policy towards a refund but there is none. I am waiting for their call tomorrow from some senior but I am not hopeful.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by dangus on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:55AM (#26822041)
You’re right, I confused the 3 months bit.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Silhouette on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:28PM (#26822613)
I don’t think any country has laws mandating that people are allowed to return products after owning them for 3 months.

It depends on the circumstances, but in the UK and most of Europe, consumer rights are much stronger than in some other parts of the world.

Here in the UK, the basic rule is that the vendor who sold a product to a private individual is on the hook for anything that goes wrong -- that is, they can't just pass the buck to a manufacturer under warranty or some other fall guy, they have to deal with the problem or be held responsible. Whether the vendor can in turn recover any losses from the manufacturer or reseller who supplied them is then that vendor's problem, not the end customer's.

Usually if a product is defective, the next step will be to repair, replace or refund. The legal position tends to be based on both sides being reasonable. For example, if you have a product that fails earlier than you might reasonably expect but still after a couple of years of use, you might get a refund for part of the original purchase price but you probably wouldn't be entitled to all of it. On the other hand, if a product fails in the first few months and the vendor can't repair or replace it, you're probably entitled to a full refund and there is a presumption that the product was defective unless the vendor can prove otherwise. In some cases, rights to a partial refund might last as long as 6 years, if the product purchased might reasonably be expected to last that long but that one didn't.

Several other shenanigans that vendors try to pull elsewhere also don't hold up here. You can't rely on dubious arbitration terms in sale contracts to override statutory consumer rights. A vendor also must not mislead consumers over their rights, for example putting up a sign saying "no refunds" when the buyer might have a legal right to a refund for a defective product. In fact, it's actually illegal for merchants to mislead in that kind of way, which is why you'll see often notices up at the tills that say something like "your statutory rights are not affected" to make it clear that they're not trying to illegally misrepresent anything about those rights.

This is all in addition to any more generous policy a merchant might voluntarily offer or any warranty a manufacturer might offer on its products regardless of where someone buys them.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Grustaf on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:50AM (#26821963)
I think it’s reasonable to expect a replacement product, but why should you be able to return it for cash? You already made the decision to buy one, I don’t think it’s Apple’s responsibility if you change your mind.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Majestic121 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:55AM (#26822037)
He made the decision to buy one that works, if there's a flaw it's perfectly reasonable to be reimbursed.

Most countries also have laws to give consumers a time period where they can return whatever they bought, no questions asked (as long as the product is in good condition)

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Grustaf on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:48PM (#26822933)
I’m saying he should get a new one that works. The question is why should he be able to return it for cash?
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by fastball on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:04PM (#26822205)
Yes but it worked when he bought it.

So the product was not, in fact, in good condition when he wanted to return it.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Majestic121 on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:23PM (#26822524)
Yes, but that's a hidden defect.

If I sell you a TV, pretending that it was working perfectly when I know for a fact that there's a component in it that has 90% chances of blowing up in the next month, you'd be perfectly right to complain and expect me to pay you back your money after your TV exploded.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by fastball on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:35PM (#26822722)
I don't think Apple knew for a fact that the speaker was defective.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by monksy on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:53AM (#26822023)
You received a defective product. Why would you be expected to keep a relationship with a party that didn't meet the expectations from the get go?
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Grustaf on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:51PM (#26822987)
You made the decision to buy a product. You got a defective one and they offered you a replacement. With the replacement you will be exactly where you set out to be. With less money, and with a working product.

Even in Sweden, consumer law paradise, I’m pretty sure you can’t ask for your money back.

Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by monksy on Thursday April 15, 2021 @10:11PM (#26828587)
You went in to the relationship with the belief that Apple was a premium vendor. You recieved a product that was not a premium product. What I think is important is: how much work is to get a replacement? That can really sour a relationship, esp when you may get a refurbished machine as a replacement.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by domano on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:53AM (#26822014)
For example here in germany it is mandated by law that you have 2 weeks grace period to get your cash back, no questions asked.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by Grustaf on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:49PM (#26822946)
Yes, but in this case 3 months had passed.
Re:Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refu... by domano on Thursday April 15, 2021 @07:44PM (#26827562)
No, not for the second macbook, which this is about. But it is also not in germany so, it does not matter anyways :)