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Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by gambiting on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:01AM (#26793105)
" telling employees to download an app on their personal phones that would check their location and ensure they were working their scheduled hours."

That's 100% illegal on this side of the pond at least, if the company wants an employee to use an app they can provide a company phone. Then sure, whatever, she could switch the business phone off after hours, no problem at all.

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by skynet-9000 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:09AM (#26793251)
Or just leave it on her desk at work. She could be working 24x7! If anything, this makes work hours fraud even easier.
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by kaiju0 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:12AM (#26793320)
Company is responsible to provide the hardware. The only issue I have is the use of personal equipment.
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by nowherebeen on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:40AM (#26793846)
Yes, asking employees to put spyware on their personal phone is crossing a line.
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by ryandrake on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @02:12PM (#26796611)
This should be the answer. If the company requires the use of an "app" as a condition for doing a job, it should also provide a device that can run such an app. Is the janitor also required to bring her own mop from home to use on the job?
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by barsonme on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:21AM (#26793457)
> That's 100% illegal on this side of the pond at least

Interestingly enough the app is built by a company in the UK.

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by mhh__ on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:47AM (#26793960)
If I recall correctly we also produce a lot of medicinal cannabis despite it still being pretty much illegal and as good as not recognized as a treatment for anything.

The UK is a rich man's country

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by deaddodo on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @12:01PM (#26794227)
The app isn't the problem, the hardware is.

And also the company's ability to trust their employees, but that's another discussion.

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by cedricgle on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:59AM (#26804606)
From the article:

  - "Toronto employment lawyer Lior Samfiru told Go Public that employers can compel employees to download an app on their cell phone — but only if they're told it's a requirement when they are hired."

So it's legal. Moreover, the lawyer continues saying that an employer can fire someone for any reason. So, if you don't sign an addendum with app requirement and install the app on your personal phone, then you are fired.

Now, I am amazed that an employer can legally have rights on other properties (hardware and data), and we are speaking of Canada here. I fear to know what they can do on more liberal countries (like the usa).

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by LatteLazy on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @12:01PM (#26794250)
On the other hand, here in the UK you cannot claim unfair dismissal until you have worked somewhere for at least 2 years so...
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by VBprogrammer on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @12:34PM (#26794968)
I'm not sure that's completely correct though I'm not an expert. If the company fired you for a reason which is illegal and were stupid enough to tell you then I think you would still have recourse. If they fired you for some other plausible reason then, yeah, tough luck.
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by LatteLazy on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:12PM (#26797521)
If you've been there less than 2 years, they're not required to provide the reason. It's "at will" employment like the US. Like you say, if they stupidly choose to say something you might have a case but why would they?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/dismiss....

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by gambiting on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:46AM (#26804518)
>>If you've been there less than 2 years, they're not required to provide the reason

I think you're misunderstanding the page. The employer is always required to provide a reason, whether you worked somewhere 1 week, 1 year, or 20 years. It's just that within the first 2 years of employment you don't have the right to challege the dismissal UNLESS it was for a discriminatory reason. But yes, no employer ever would say "we're letting you go because you're pregnant"(or maybe they would).

>> It's "at will" employment like the US.

Well, not quite. They still have to legally give you notice(only 1 week is required legally if you worked less than 2 years, but yes).

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by LatteLazy on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @06:46AM (#26805287)
Yeah, but they can say "you're pregnant? In an unrelated matter were letting you go because it's Thursday". And you cannot challenge that.
Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by gambiting on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:44AM (#26806948)
You absolutely can. If you think your dismissal was due to a discriminatory reason, you can absolutely challenge it, no matter what was actually officially given as the reason. After all no one ever writes "fired for being black" yet people win racial discrimination cases all the time. 2 years or not, you have that right.

What you cannot do is challege as dismissal as unfair for any non-discriminatory reason. It has absolutely nothing to do with what the employer wrote down as the reason for dismissal, it's the question of what grounds are you challenging them on.

Re:School custodian refuses to download app that monitors lo... by LatteLazy on Thursday April 15, 2021 @07:58AM (#26819323)
Yeah, but then you have to prove it. Previously your employer had to show the dismissal was fair, now you have to show it was not. In such subjective cases, that is very hard. Like you say, no one will say "you're too black, you're fired". But before they had to actually have a reason that wasn't subjective. Now they don't, they can hide behind the equivalent of "no comment" and you have to find evidence...