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Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by insickness on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:34AM (#26769246)
'Incredibly simple' answers and platitudes do an immense disservice to anyone trying optimize the effects of diet and exercise. For example, high-intensity interval training has been shown to be far more effective than low-intensity. And many have found a starvation diet is impossible to maintain and far less effective than a keto diet. It may seem like a waste of time to you, but this type of research can add up to important shifts in how we understand and maintain health.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:26AM (#26769853)
Agreed. Gary Taubes has written three high quality books on the subject. The most technical and heavily referenced are Why We Get Fat and The Case For Keto. The latter was just published.

I’ve been following a low glycemic diet for decades, but Taubes explains technically why it minimizes fat deposition.

If I start eating snacks like candy or corn chips, the weight gain is immediate and obvious. Not all calories are the same - some foods just “go to your hips”.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:41AM (#26770644)
Eating low carb and switching to high carb will cause significant water weight increase due to increased muscle glycogen. On the order of 5-10lbs. It's not fat.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Sunday April 11, 2021 @11:08AM (#26770813)
That’s correct. For me, the effect is about four pounds. It comes off as fast as it went on.

But if I continue to eat high carb, there is a weight gain that is much harder to shed.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Sunday April 11, 2021 @05:15PM (#26773507)
Are you saying that a diet from higher carbs will produce more fat gain than an equicaloric low carb diet?
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Monday April 12, 2021 @10:29PM (#26787536)
Yes, I am saying just that. The body uses 100 calories of corn chips and Coke differently than 100 calories of bacon eaten by itself.

Read Taubes for references to the scientific literature.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:32AM (#26789182)
The first law of thermodynamics takes issue with this. A calorie is a unit of measure for energy.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @06:48PM (#26800452)
Excess calories can be stored as fat. Carbs that drive high insulin levels end up being converted to fat, and the subsequent low blood sugar level promotes more carb consumption.

This does not happen with protein and fat consumption. If you force yourself to overeat those foods in the absence of carbs, which is not easy, they will be simply eliminated.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @07:51PM (#26801179)
You're saying that eating excess calories in the form of fat won't be stored as fat? That's the most efficient pathway and was critical to our survival.

What you're referring to (excess carbohydrates converted to fat) is denovo lipogenesis which is exceedingly inefficient and rare in humans.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @08:45PM (#26801612)
My personal experience over several decades aligns with what Taubes explains in the first book I cited. If you want the technical details, you could read it.

You can't get fat on a diet that is strongly deficient in carbs, while it's easy to get fat on a diet containing high proportions of fat and carbs.

The Eskimo subsist on meat and blubber alone. Roald Amundsen ran the experiment on himself and confirmed it.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:16PM (#26815855)
The group of people you're referencing (Inuit people btw, Eskimo is a slur) have some of the highest obesity rates in the world! The Nunavuts have an obesity rate of 48%!

The ethiopians have a diet of mostly carbohydrates (>70%), and are extremely lean.

Taubes is a bullshit artist who cherry picks data to sell books.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by wrycoder on Thursday April 15, 2021 @12:35AM (#26816234)
Modern Inuits. Fast food. And stuff your 'slur'. !w Eskimo.

Ethiopians are hungry.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by david-gpu on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:42PM (#26774172)
Not the person you addressed, but people are not lab rats whose daily caloric amount is controlled by a lab technician.

We humans in rich countries eat ad libitum. Any dietary intervention that helps us feel less hungry will lead to a reduction in the calories we consume.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:30AM (#26789160)
I never said they didn't. I said that a diet, when controlled for calorie levels, will yield identical fat gain/loss.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by TheCoelacanth on Monday April 12, 2021 @12:25PM (#26781343)
Of course not. The type of foods you eat affects how many calories you eat so the diets won't be equicaloric.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:29AM (#26789150)
Well the person I responded to is claiming equicaloric diets lead to different levels of fat gain.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Sunday April 11, 2021 @10:43AM (#26770657)
Effective for what? Body composition? Fitness? If the latter, please explain why all elite endurance athletes do the overwhelming majority (>95%) of their training at low intensities. If the former, well, elite endurance athletes sure aren't fat.
Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by insickness on Sunday April 11, 2021 @04:42PM (#26773224)
First, I would like to see a source for your 95%. That sounds fishy. Almost every sport I can think of incorporates high intensity interval training and did before it became common for the layperson to incorporate in exercise regimens.

Second, what elite athletes do often does not translate to what laypeople can and should do. Most elite athletes have a tremendous gene advantage over other people, not to mention the time, energy, diet, coaches, etc., that allows them to push beyond what the average person can tolerate. It's almost ridiculous to say, "Micheal Phelps does xyz in the pool and you should too if you want to improve your health in the most efficient way possible."

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by Pinguinsan on Sunday April 11, 2021 @05:14PM (#26773500)
What is the cutoff for elite athletes vs non-elites? A 5 minute mile? 6 minute mile? Why would there be a discontinuous jump between what a lay person should do versus a profesionally athlete? Sure, volume and intensity would be scaled back but type of exercise wouldn't be all that different.

See https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/endurance-training-me... for an example. The German track cycling team does 90+% of their training at low intensities. For an event lasting 4 minutes. The simple fact is that at the highest level, all pure endurance athletes do mostly aerobic work.

Re:Exercise elicits superior metabolic effects in the aftern... by insickness on Sunday April 11, 2021 @08:32PM (#26774937)
Ok, I missed where you were referring specifically to endurance athletes. You may be correct that endurance athletes do most of their training at lower intensities, although they almost all incorporate some type of higher intensity interval training.

The reason I separate elite athletes from others is that they are genetically different than the average person. To be an elite athlete in a super competitive sport, you are not representative of the normal population. You can likely train harder and longer and most likely have some type of other genetic advantage. It's far better to focus on studies that look at normal people rather than elite athletes.

Anyway, to go back to your original question, asking how HIIT is more effective, you are right that it is not necessarily effective at every endeavor. But literature shows that for the average person, doing 10 minutes of HIIT can be as effective in losing weight, gaining muscle, cardiovascular fitness, etc. as doing something like 30 minutes of low-intensity exercise.