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Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by pfranz on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @01:47AM (#26708321)
This article has an odd, simplified, and biased description of history. Apple pushed USB hard and early. The article carefully never made the claim Apple owned Firewire exclusively--it was a partnership with Sony and Panasonic that had certain benefits.

I'm not sure what alternative to the 30-pin connector the author would have been pleased with. Personally, I'm very glad it wasn't micro or mini USB. The Lightning port was shipping years ahead of something like USB-C. Sure, it would be nice if they switched now. I'm sure even if they used a standard port they'd still have a certification program because Apple loves control. I'm confident the licensing money is just a perk. Look at the iPad Pro. They used USB-C instead of extending Lightning.

Bluetooth headphones had been disappointing for decades. After being disappointed over and over I had settled on completely proprietary digital wireless headphones (much like wireless mice until BluetoothLE). Then Apple started making some great headphones that added a bit of "magic" around Bluetooth. I hear AirPods work great outside of Apple's ecosystem, too. They still have some of the "warts" of Bluetooth like having a battery-draining, low latency, low quality mono mode for phone/chat and a higher quality mode for music that sometimes get stuck in the wrong mode, but it's nice they're using a widely supported standard.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by madeofpalk on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:20AM (#26712056)
It's always worth nothing that Apple played a significant role in creating USB-C. There have been (unproven) "rumors" that Apple invented USB-C, but otherwise a quarter of the engineers listed on the (initial) USB-C spec working group were Apple engineers.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by DiabloD3 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @11:36AM (#26713148)
It's somewhat the reverse, in a way. Apple, and other companies, clearly would benefit from a once and always connector that far exceeds the demands of whatever USB will need in the future...

... except Lightning is the production version of an early rejected Type C prototype. It was rejected because external facing pins are a common and well known fault point in connector designs.

Those external pins on Lightning plug tabs are the most common failure point of their cables.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by inspector-g on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @12:04PM (#26713557)
> except Lightning is the production version of an early rejected Type C prototype

Do you have a source for this? Curious to read more about it.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by Solocomplex on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:08PM (#26715283)
It's better than a failure of the port on the device.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by AlphaSite on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @12:03PM (#26713551)
Do you know what the trade offs in terms of cable vs design reliability are for USBC vs Lightning out of interest?
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by audunw on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:22AM (#26710172)
> After being disappointed over and over I had settled on completely proprietary digital wireless headphones (much like wireless mice until BluetoothLE). Then Apple started making some great headphones that added a bit of "magic" around Bluetooth. I hear AirPods work great outside of Apple's ecosystem, too.

It's funny that you mention Bluetooth LE for mice. Audio has been stuck on classic Bluetooth due to bandwidth requirements. But that's fixed with Bluetooth 5, which gives us audio over BLE. There are a bunch of functional improvements other than low power radio. Lower latency and better pairing for instance. I think BT 5.0 headphones will be a huge improvement.

Given the timing of the release of AirPods and the development of the BT5.0 spec, I've had a theory that Apple borrowed features from BT5.0 in the case where you use AirPods with Apple products.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by m463 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @07:23AM (#26710537)
everyone I've talked to who's worked on bluetooth hates it.

except ble - I think is a different and simpler protocol

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by catlifeonmars on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @09:19AM (#26711424)
I concur with this. I helped build a Bluetooth compatible health device for a hackathon. I was responsible for the Bluetooth integration. Coming into this knowing absolutely nothing about the Bluetooth spec and not knowing the difference between Bluetooth and BLE; I tried to use both and only successfully built a BLE integration (as it turns out, it was the right protocol for transmitting low dimensionality biometrics).
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by EricE on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:35PM (#26717068)
Apple not only pushed USB (a standard created by Intel and universally ignored by PC vendors until the candy colored iMacs created a sensation) but USB replaced the Apple Desktop Bus (ADB) - a proprietary serial connection.

Doesn't fit the "Apple is a walled garden" narrative though :p

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by poidos on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:11AM (#26711956)
> I hear AirPods work great outside of Apple's ecosystem, too.

I worked as a "technical expert" at apple during school (recently), and I can say this is not exactly true. The biggest problems with airpods were invariably customers trying to use them with non-Apple devices. As far as I understand, airpods are unable to update their own firmware without being paired to an Apple device. Pairing was also much, much more difficult with airpods than standard bluetooth headsets.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by 908B64B197 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:47PM (#26717789)
> Sure, it would be nice if they switched now

I don't know. It has a nice ecosystem around it. Everyone has a bunch of lightning cables everywhere now. Just like the 30-pin it's not perfect, but is so widely used there's one almost everywhere you need.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by jeswin on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @03:44AM (#26709176)
> Personally, I'm very glad it wasn't micro or mini USB.

Why is the 30-pin connector better than a well-made micro USB connector? As a consumer, I can think of a number of advantages going with the standard USB port.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by pfranz on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:20AM (#26709410)
It did predate it by over 5 years. If you're talking about tech features the 30-pin supported (at various points) Firewire, USB, play controls, line-level analog audio and video--for example there was a 30-pin to VGA. AFAIK USB isn't capable of almost any of these things. I believe things like USB audio came later and the 30-pin cable supported that, too.

Even though the connector is much wider I found it way more reliable and easier to plug in without looking at the bottom of the device. It also seems way sturdier when jamming your player into a speaker dock. You mention "well-made" cables. Micro USB is now 14 years old and I don't know of a reliable brand (maybe Anker?). I still constantly throw out cables not knowing if they're broken, not rated for use, or what.

I love standards. I don't know why it took decades to come up with a reversible connector. I've been waiting for USB-C to take off for awhile. Sadly, cable compatibility seems to be a mess (between power, speed, thunderbolt compatibility, etc).

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by ldrndll on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:19AM (#26710148)
I absolutely loathe micro USB. I am constantly having to throw away cables that are a few months old because they no longer reliably charge my devices (PS4 controllers, Fire tablets, Bose headphones), and that's with me buying the most reliable cables I can find (Anker). Micro USB really is terrible...
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by turbinerneiter on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @07:50AM (#26710728)
I never ever had a micro usb cable fail.

I often had problems with USB C in my previous phone on the phone side.

Apple cables fray almost immediately.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by ceejayoz on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @08:43AM (#26711082)
My issues have never been the Micro USB cables, but the ports. They seem to often not be solidly secured into the device. (Amazon's Kindles' ports are pretty rock solid, to their credit.)
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by catlifeonmars on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @09:22AM (#26711444)
IIRC the major innovation for USB-C is to put the spring loaded component into the cable rather than the device. This is brilliant, since springs wear out over time and it’s much easier to replace a cable than a device in most (all?) situations.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by majewsky on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @09:49AM (#26711705)
Micro-USB-A also has the movable part in the cable (the two little teeth on the flat side). You might be thinking of Mini-USB-A.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by catlifeonmars on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:23PM (#26715457)
Yes I was wrong. I assumed that micro usb A and B did not spring components in the cable. It’s only the pre-micro usb cables lack this improvement.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by danaris on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:31AM (#26712198)
The problem with the ports isn't (in in my experience) with spring-loaded components wearing out: rather, like ceejayoz said, I've seen a number of cases where the port just...moves around inside the device, so that you can't plug the cable in properly. Either it gets offset, so that the port is simply inaccessible through the slot in the case, or pushing in on it just makes the port itself push further into the case. (In that case, one can generally force it in a few times before things start to really break within the case.)

I know of no specific reason why this should be more common with micro-USB than with other connectors, but I've only seen it happen with micro-USB in person.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by XorNot on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:49AM (#26712454)
It's more likely the solder is cracking off the PCB. Jiggling the port around forces it back into good contact and it'll sporadically work.

The real problem is we don't bolt the ports to the chassis in most cases, we just put them on the PCB with little bracing them in the direction of applied force.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by catlifeonmars on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:26PM (#26715484)
As it turns out, this is addressed in the class specification. I wonder if it’s the spec that’s deficient or whether the devices in question are non compliant.

See page 40: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/CabConn20.pdf

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by tekromancr on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @12:05PM (#26726889)
My first "hack" as a teenager was soldering a USB cable into the place the USB mini port was on a palm I was using as an ereader. The port would just become detached from the board if you looked at it funny; so this worked pretty well. I could just plug the whole device in to charge from then on.

Then I realized that the three volts that were supplied from a pair of AA batteries was really more of a suggestion. That summer, lots of gadgets I had became "USB powered"

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by Larrikin on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:07PM (#26717958)
Apple cables used to be the worst cables when it comes to fraying. I had never had a cable fray except apple cables, but I also haven't had an apple cable fray in a few years now. It seems like whatever terrible way they used to make the cables has been fixed
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by dmitriid on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:06AM (#26709314)
> Why is the 30-pin connector better than a well-made micro USB connector?

Apple's 30-pin connector was released in 2003. And was undoubtedly in development for at least a year or two before that. It served Apple for nine years until 2012. It carried audio, video, FireWire, USB, and also charged connected devices.

In the span of those nine years, USB:

- didn't have a batter charging specification until 2007

- didn't have a power delivery specification until 2012

- deprecated mini-A and mini-B in 2007

- introduced a new connector in 2007

USB has always been a mess. Apple's connectors are the stability that people should strive for, not deride.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by sjg007 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:38AM (#26709907)
Except in the hands of kids who manage to destroy cables readily. The original iPad one and even lightning. USB-c is way better.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by willyt on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:06AM (#26710062)
My kids have destroyed countless lightning cables and usb micro cables. They have also destroyed 3 amazon fire tablets and a nexus tablet by yanking on the cable but they’ve never destroyed any apple devices this way. Thats why the lightning connector is a better design.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by sjg007 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @01:53PM (#26715116)
I thought the lighting adapter was a big improvement but my kids have managed to break the tip off multiple times in multiple ipads... fortunately I've been able to get the pieces out. The other issue is that for some reason after too much use, they fail to connect/charge which isn't always a cable issue but something intrinsic to the port. The other thing I found is my kids have plugged the lighting adapter into an electrical outlet on a surge protector... they did with with usb-c too so there's some confusion there too.

USB-C seems more robust but it may have other issues I haven't discovered yet.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by bradknowles on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:38AM (#26721518)
Breaking the tip of the cable is better than breaking the port.

As you have proven, it is usually possible to get those parts back out of the port, which is hopefully undamaged, even though the tip of the cable broke off inside.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by willyt on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @01:51PM (#26728352)
> The other thing I found is my kids have plugged the lighting adapter into an electrical outlet on a surge protector...

Yikes! Oh well at least they are protected from power surges...

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by dmitriid on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @07:22AM (#26710533)
USB-C was finalised in 2014, two years after Lightning was shipped (so possibly up to four years after Apple had started development of Lightning).

It also requires a larger port than Lightning, so you can see why Apple would be okay with adding it to iPads, but not to iPhones.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by yourapostasy on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @03:19AM (#26709017)
> The Lightning port was shipping years ahead of something like USB-C. Sure, it would be nice if they switched now.

If Apple can fix their supply of USB-C ports so they uniformly, consistently last for more than just 6-12 months instead of some do and some don’t, I’d be onboard for switching. As it is, it is frustratingly common for Apple Lightning plugs to wear out the fingers and Apple USB-C ports to lose their “click” (even when just standing in a laptop cradle on a desk and otherwise covered with a port plug when carried around).

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by tatersolid on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:32AM (#26709863)
> it is frustratingly common for Apple Lightning plugs to wear out the fingers

This is a feature. If the metal inside the port wore out instead repairs would be a lot more expensive.

I’ve also only experienced lightning plug wear with cheap Amazon Basics or gas-station cables. The Apple lightning cables have much better made plugs, but they have a different flaw: the super-thin outer cover detaches from the connector housing over time, exposing the shielding wire.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by kalleboo on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:46AM (#26712424)
In Lightning, the moving/springy parts are in the port, not the cable (unlike USB-C where it's the cable that wears out)
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by mason55 on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @09:30AM (#26711512)
It was also one of the major benefits in the (fast) transition from mini USB to micro USB! Mini usb had a bad habit of wearing out the port instead of the plug.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by pfranz on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:28AM (#26709460)
I haven't heard of or experienced those issues directly =/ The only issue I've hit myself is lint getting packed into the port which is fairly easily cleaned but annoying if you don't have a tool handy. I have heard lots of stories about the cable fatiguing. My suspicion is that's because of using the phone while charging; heating and bending the cable near the connector. I haven't experienced this (I tend not to charge while using it) but have friends that do.

I haven't seen or heard of an issue with USB-C ports. My beefs are that there isn't enough, you can't get more with a hub, and generic power supplies and cables have only been available in the past couple years. The older devices I had with USB-C I got rid of when they fixed the keyboard. I definitely had them longer then 6-12 months.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by MrBuddyCasino on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @04:02AM (#26709289)
> it is frustratingly common for Apple Lightning plugs to wear out the fingers

I have only experienced this with 3rd party cables, but never ones made by Apple.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by Joker_vD on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @05:20AM (#26709778)
Another reason why Lighning is inferior to USB: the USB cables can be cheap and of good quality.
Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by kalleboo on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @10:49AM (#26712461)
You're being heavily downvoted but this is my experience as well.

Even Lightning cables from "alright" brands like Amazon Basics have lots of issues, whereas the only microUSB cables I've had issues with are the really bargain basement stuff that comes bundled with aliexpress junk. It seems the required tolerances for Lightning are way higher (=more expensive).

I don't have enough experience with cheap USB-C cables to make generalizations there though.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by jdeibele on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @02:37PM (#26715600)
I have an iPhone and AirPods, both with the Lightning port. I charge them every night with $7-$10 Qi chargers from Amazon. I've read that doing wirelessly charges slower but that's supposed to be better for the battery.

Rarely do I use a Lightning cable anymore. I bought an Apple Watch and there's nothing but an option to wirelessly charge it. Before that I would have been skeptical about the idea that Apple is not going to switch to USB-C but instead just use wireless charging. Now it seems reasonable.

PS: I had used various Bluetooth headphones before. The killer features of the AirPods Pro are their small size (I can fit the case in my coin pocket) and the ability to skip 30 seconds ahead in podcasts.

I had used various Garmin Vivofits and loved that they lasted a year on a coin battery or two. But I found that "completing my circles" on my Apple Watch was just enough gamification that I'm moving significantly more than I did before I got the watch. It does make me understand why some health care organizations give them out to members to try and get them to move more. I switched from the SE to the 6 because the SE takes 2 1/2 hours to charge instead of the 6's 1 1/2. It's still annoying to have something that requires such attention to keeping it charged and then charges so slowly. But the trade-off was worth it for me.

Re:Apple can own I/O to own the universe by api on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @08:35AM (#26711000)
Bose also makes great Bluetooth headphones, but only the high-end ones. Cheaper Bluetooth headphones (of any brand) are awful.