I'm so sorry you're going through that. Everyone should take this advice seriously.

My 94yo grandfather passed a few days before Christmas last year and I had been staying next-door, taking care of him for about 2 months leading-up to it (helping him to the bathroom a few times per night, getting him water, etc. Congestive heart failure is not the dignified and pain-free death you might think it would be.)

I found his body maybe 5 minutes after his heart had failed, and it took another 20 for the paramedics to arrive. I was really upset to find that when they arrived, without a DNR on file anywhere, they were required to attempt to resuscitate. I was sitting there with my grandmother hoping that it wouldn't come to that, and luckily common sense prevailed and they were able to get a doctor on the phone to sign-off on avoiding CPR. But for a while there, I was really concerned that my grandmother and I were going to have to watch them desecrate his body which had been lifeless for close to 30 minutes. Horrible.

By default, liability overrules common-sense when it comes to medical treatment, and absolutely everyone loses.

That varies from state to state (and certainly country to country). Here in New York I wouldn’t automatically be required to begin resuscitation in a scenario like that, _especially_ if family requesting no efforts be made. It’s possible (if you’re in the US) that the responders were EMTs, not paramedics, and would have had less autonomy to make that decision.

I know a guy that got resuscitated because when he went from hospital to nursing home he keeled over faster than the nursing home could get his papers through the process and the staff didn't know he had a DNR. The family was pissed about that but he walked out himself a few months later. He wound up back at that nursing home and died there, but that was 7yr later. There's a balance to be struck. You don't want a DNR unless you're serious about dying.

My mother-in-law has a DNR. She was in Guatemala, got a kidney stone, went in for a CT scan, reacted badly to the dye, and her heart stopped. But in Guatemala, they don't know what a DNR is. The idea that anyone would actually want that is totally foreign to them. So they resuscitated her anyway. And, since it was just a reaction to the dye, she was fine - no adverse effects at all. And we're glad to still have her.

But she's also been a nurse, and has said that she didn't know anyone who lived past 80 who hadn't regretted it.

I don't know what conclusions to draw...

As someone who grew up in a medical family, my opinion is that most medical practitioners have a horribly warped view of aging. They spend their working life tending to the worst outcomes of age and end of life care. They think this makes them experts on aging, but really they remain experts on disease.

Plenty of people enjoy life past 80. I wouldn’t draw many of conclusions from your MIL at all.

My grandma is 84 and enjoying life still. Granted she can't walk as far as she used to, and gets tired more easily, but she's perfectly cogent and fun to have a conversation with. She's in a retirement village where she has friends with similar interests, and she even plays ping pong weekly. I won't lie, when I last played her a couple of years ago she could still take points off me. I don't think she regrets living past 80, though of course I would never ask.

My dad is 82. Up to a few weeks ago, he was going on his 3 mile daily walk, etc. He's getting better at playing bridge. He has a medical issue now but treatment may get him back to "full" activity (up to 4 or so years ago that was a 3 mile run, and that's probably off the table forever).

I don't know that he's enjoyed the past year because of COVID not letting him do very much at all, but if not for that, he'd have been golfing, etc, and scowling at the younger people driving carts instead of walking with their clubs :P. I think he has a decent life.

I'd be careful with the DNR and living will.

While there are many doctors that don't want the end to drag out, there are many who believe DNRs and living wills are not the best thing either (with a good bit of overlap too). Generally, you only want a DNR if you know you have a terminal illness or are very old. The living will can be better, but you still can't cover every scenario or account for all factors. At least you can outline some concepts and name a person to carry out those decisions the best they can.

You should at the very least investigate the effectiveness and risks of resuscitation. I only got a DNR after being diagnosed with incurable cancer, but had I known the (in)effectiveness and risks of resuscitation I would have done it much earlier.

It depends on a lot of factors. Most young people without a preexisting issue shouldn't get a DNR. Are there cases where they bring you back as a vegetable? Sure. But there are also cases where they bring you back and make a full recovery. A living will or medical power of attorney would better address the scenarios with bad outcomes for young people without preexisting issues.

I'm sorry about your father.

But... it's easier in hindsight, isn't it? Obviously futile care on someone old is one thing, but if I had a stroke now, ... I have reasonable odds to come out if it almost OK with some minor deficit, so electing not to be treated would be dubious.

And some stroke treatments, like rTPA, do a lot more for odds of disability than they do for mortality. So by declining too much treatment I could be increasing my odds of a bad outcome but surviving.