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Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by slibhb on Friday April 02, 2021 @04:53PM (#26675867)
> Since the intelligence test was invented more than 100 years ago, our IQ scores have been steadily increasing. Even the average person today would have been considered a genius compared to someone born in 1919 – a phenomenon known as the Flynn effect.

Hard to see this as anything but an indictment of IQ tests.

People have not gotten smarter so whatever these tests are measuring and however well they predict success, they're not measuring intelligence.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by ghgdynb1 on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:04PM (#26675986)
People have definitely gotten smarter. Here’s a small case which might help illustrate how this happens in general: We know infection with hookworms and other soil-transmitted helminths will do nasty things to the intelligence of the patient, especially for children. Since humanity got rich enough to build sewer systems and shoes and anti-parasitic drug companies, soil transmitted helminths have become a lot less of a problem (and the same goes for their cognitive effects).
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by nwah1 on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:19PM (#26676106)
Iodine deficiency and leaded gasoline are other examples.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by wcarss on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:25PM (#26676175)
I just learned about the awful effects of iodine deficiency and how incredibly widespread it once was the other day from a youtube suggestion[1] about iodized salt.

Previously I had thought iodization was mostly for preventing thyroid issues in the event of nuclear fallout, but no! It was a way bigger deal. For example, I had no idea it was the origin of the term "cretin"[2].

1 - https://youtu.be/B00K66HivcI

2 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretin

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by mrfusion on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:37PM (#26676671)
Sadly a lot of salt in the stores now boasts iodine-free.

I actually had to buy the cheapest 99 cent salt shaker to get one with iodine and I add a few sprinkles to most of my kids meals. Just to be safe.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by LukeShu on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:01PM (#26676425)
TIL that "cretin" and "Cretan" aren't the same word. I guess I'm glad to know that the etymology is ableist instead of racist.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by slibhb on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:40PM (#26676690)
My dismissal was too strong but the article says "even the average person today would have been considered a genius compared to someone born in 1919". I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Even if average intelligence has climbed up, genius is about the absolute top of the heap and I doubt that has changed.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by faitswulff on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:37PM (#26676245)
Isn't IQ a relative test, though? Doesn't this just mean that there's a growing intelligence gap between the average person and the most intelligent?
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by mvanaltvorst on Friday April 02, 2021 @04:58PM (#26675927)
People have gotten taller and healthier because of better nutrition, there is no reason to believe people haven't gotten smarter as well.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by avmich on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#26675965)
> there is no reason to believe people haven't gotten smarter as well.

Null hypothesis? By default we don't assume presence of changes, in the absence of reasons for that, and those reasons - that nutrition is causing IQ growth - need to be explained.

There shouldn't be no reasons not to assume something, it's not enough. Sorry for triple negative.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by dragonwriter on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:08PM (#26676014)
> By default we don't assume presence of changes,

This isn’t a by default issue, this is claiming counterevidence to increase in intelligence that justifies rejecting the validity of IQ in measuring intelligence because it is increasing. The null hypothesis doesn’t support that, only independent evidence of intelligence not increasing would.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by porb121 on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:32PM (#26676213)
by default we assume nothing, not a lack of change or interaction. to do the latter is to assert.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by 29athrowaway on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#26675959)
Some important factors in recent times are the awareness of iodine deficiency and the adverse effects of lead exposure.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by creddit on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:34PM (#26676225)
It's important for many people's belief systems that intelligence is unaffected by physical/evolutionary factors.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by jpxw on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:39PM (#26676268)
It’s impossible to be politically correct these days unless you buy that theory.

The idea that evolution stops at the neck seems completely laughable to me.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by reducesuffering on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:45PM (#26676319)
According to Gwern's theory[0], there's no point dying on this hill right now as future genetic testing will illuminate reality.

[0]https://www.gwern.net/Mistakes#iq

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by dragonwriter on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#26675957)
> People have not gotten smarter

Why do you assume this to be the case? All kinds of early-environment things have adverse, lifelong cognitive effects, and both society at large and aware individuals for their own kids have tended to direct energy at reducing exposure to them. People getting smarter is a pretty predictable effect.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by azornathogron on Friday April 02, 2021 @04:59PM (#26675935)
> People have not gotten smarter so whatever these tests are measuring and however well they predict success, they're not measuring intelligence.

This is obviously true, except other changes have happened. People have got taller. I'm no expert but I believe that's mostly down to better nutrition. Is it possible that better nutrition has also led to people getting smarter? I'm not sure. I wouldn't bet on it, but it doesn't seem completely impossible either.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by KMag on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:19PM (#26676116)
> Is it possible that better nutrition has also led to people getting smarter?

If you count lead paint "wall candy" chips, nutrition definitely has improved intelligence.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by OscarCunningham on Friday April 02, 2021 @04:56PM (#26675908)
Why do you think people haven't gotten smarter?
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by Andrew_nenakhov on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:15PM (#26676072)
Brain requires a lot of energy to work, so better nutrition will certainly not hurt. However, I believe that if there is some improvement to intelligence due to better nutrition, its effect is negligible compared to improvements due to education, better teaching techniques and near-universal literacy.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by KMag on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:24PM (#26676161)
I hope other non-educational improvements in child rearing have also had a significant effect. In particular, the widespread acceptance of the idea it's not okay to strike children has hopefully greatly reduced the number of children trying to learn with varying degrees of PTSD.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by wisty on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:32PM (#26676214)
Instead, parents feel bad about telling their children what to do, and without rules and structure anxiety and depression seem pretty high.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by slightwinder on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:25PM (#26676168)
Seems this is mostly about average people. On average people today have far better food, medical treatments, education and also chances for mental training. Which means on average people today have better chances to utilize their potential and maintain their individual peak.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by dv_dt on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:23PM (#26676151)
> People have not gotten smarter so whatever these tests are measuring and however well they predict success, they're not measuring intelligence.

Another contributor might be that the model of intelligence that the IQ tests is close to a model that is used by education and development experts, and that kids are getting pre-educated in skills that allow them to do better on IQ tests.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by hellbannedguy on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:52PM (#26676358)
Or, have we just gotten better at test taking, and seen similar test questions while killing time at Barns & Noble before taking the test?
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by heavyset_go on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:02PM (#26675967)
> Hard to see this as anything but an indictment of IQ tests.

Careful, there are a lot of people who have an emotional attachment to IQ tests and their implications for determining intelligence. Implying that IQ tests don't measure intelligence usually brings them out of the woodwork.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by ghgdynb1 on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:08PM (#26676015)
Careful, there are a lot of people who wish IQ tests didn’t have anything useful to say about intelligence. Implying that IQ tests can be useful tools and that their results might bear some relation to intelligence usually brings them out of the woodwork.
Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by bsder on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:26PM (#26676183)
> People have not gotten smarter

This flies in the fact of lots of evidence to the contrary:

1) High-school students now understand mathematics that only advanced degrees would have understood in 1919.

2) High-school musicians now regularly play pieces that were considered meant only for "virtuousos" in 1919.

I can go on and on.

At the very least, your hypothesis that people haven't gotten smarter is quite suspect and demands evidence. The fact that IQ tests (whatever they measure) have shown an aggregate increase is also evidence against your hypothesis.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by max1984_2 on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:11PM (#26676503)
> This flies in the fact of lots of evidence to the contrary

Your examples are not evidence of higher IQ. They are examples of human progress.

> 1) High-school students now understand mathematics that only advanced degrees would have understood in 1919.

Being the first to do something and following in their footsteps is two very different things.

Sure but that is just because it is better understood now. All this this means is that the idea / technique is better understood and understood by more people.

> 2) High-school musicians now regularly play pieces that were considered meant only for "virtuousos" in 1919.

Again this is just evidence that more people understand how to play the pieces.

Doing something novel and unique is much more difficult than understanding something that is already understood. That is why scientists sometimes say they are standing on the shoulders of giants

> The fact that IQ tests (whatever they measure) have shown an aggregate increase is also evidence against your hypothesis.

You are oversimplying the findings, I made the same mistake when I first heard of the flynn effect. What you are referring to is the Flynn effect. This is where the average IQ increases each generation. While there is an increase of ~3 points every decade, it is on the low end of the distribution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect#Rise_in_IQ

> Some studies have found the gains of the Flynn effect to be particularly concentrated at the lower end of the distribution. Teasdale and Owen (1989), for example, found the effect primarily reduced the number of low-end scores, resulting in an increased number of moderately high scores, with no increase in very high scores. In another study, two large samples of Spanish children were assessed with a 30-year gap. Comparison of the IQ distributions indicated that the mean IQ scores on the test had increased by 9.7 points (the Flynn effect), the gains were concentrated in the lower half of the distribution and negligible in the top half, and the gains gradually decreased as the IQ of the individuals increased. Some studies have found a reverse Flynn effect with declining scores for those with high IQ.

In other words the people with the lowest IQ scores are increasing more greatly and pushing the average up. The whole distribution itself is not moving with it though.

I dislike the whole idea though of IQ as a test of intelligence (which is a nebulous concept in itself). I've seen people with high IQs believe in very ridiculous things and engage in behaviour which most would consider to be stupid.

As someone that did 2 proper IQ tests back in the 90s because my school thought I mentally handicapped (I am dyspraxic so technically I am). The tests are good at identifying whether you are good at abstract reasoning. There are other forms of thinking that I am very bad at even though I am on the higher end of the IQ scale (I was graded at 142 at the time).

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by bsder on Saturday April 03, 2021 @04:17AM (#26679206)
Expertise/intelligence/whatever you call it is the ability to handle more complex tasks because you can place the less complex tasks as background tasks.

This follows whether it is due to better education, better training, better tools, or better nutrition.

Are programmers "smarter" than they were 50 years ago? They can certainly create much more complex programs that do MUCH more than we could 50 years ago.

Are chess players "smarter" than they were 100 years ago? ELO ratings sure suggest they are.

Would those people of 100 years ago been able to do the tasks we can now given our current society? Maybe. But that indicates that "intelligence" is also a function of "current environment". And, if the current environment is better, then the humans are "smarter", too.

Re:Has humanity reached ‘peak intelligence’? by max1984_2 on Saturday April 03, 2021 @07:07AM (#26680028)
> Expertise/intelligence/whatever you call it is the ability to handle more complex tasks because you can place the less complex tasks as background tasks.

No it isn't. I have seen otherwise quite smart people completely fail to do the most basic tasks especially when it comes to repair.

You can work it out (I for example can do many home DIY projects now). But just because you can do a complex task in one domain it does not mean you can do a relative simple task in another domain. You can see this in this industry. The number of C# programmers that cannot do simple CSS.

The fact the you can't give it a proper name means that you cannot quantify it properly.

> This follows whether it is due to better education, better training, better tools, or better nutrition.

No it doesn't. Better training for doing X just means you will be better at doing X. It does not say anything about how well you may perform in other taks.

> Are programmers "smarter" than they were 50 years ago? They can certainly create much more complex programs that do MUCH more than we could 50 years ago.

More complex doesn't mean it is better. In fact if you are a good engineer you will know that unnecessarily complexity is a sign of a poor design. So this does not follow what-so-ever.

Also most of the literature written 50 years or more ago from the pioneers of the field are constantly being re-discovered.

So no.

> Are chess players "smarter" than they were 100 years ago? ELO ratings sure suggest they are.

No. No. No. Just because a number goes up, doesn't mean that everyone is getting better. It could be because weaker players may not bother at all with such matches where they are rated, while better players are more likely to participate in any ranked or scoring system. So you cannot draw that conclusion.

> Would those people of 100 years ago been able to do the tasks we can now given our current society? Maybe. But that indicates that "intelligence" is also a function of "current environment". And, if the current environment is better, then the humans are "smarter", to

No I am sorry that conclusion is incorrect. There are many here that would struggle doing some very basic things in other fields especially if it involved their hands (carpentry, joining, brick laying) because they have no expertise in it and those fields have been around a very long time. So you cannot come to that conclusion at all.