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Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by relix on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:25AM (#26670103)
Misleading title and very long article that boils down to: solo passionate inventor comes up with invention to reduce friendly fire, in one year, after suffering a friendly fire incident, and tries to get the military to adopt it, but the military does not want his particular solution.

The only testimony about why the military is not interested in his solution comes from the inventor himself. The military meanwhile does invest in different solutions, which the inventor claims are inferior.

> “I gotta give ’em credit for trying,” he said. “They spent about a billion dollars, and the thing wouldn’t work with [individual] soldiers.

To me, it seems more likely that the military has identified certain disadvantages to his proposed solution, than that there is some sort of conspiracy theory against solo inventors or this inventor specifically. I find it hard to believe that this person could come up with a solution in one year, that is superior to anything that professionals have been able to come up with after 30 years and billions of dollars of investment, but that the military dismisses his idea out of hand just because he's a solo inventor and not a big contractor.

The fact that the military has and is investing billions of dollars to try and solve friendly fire events shows they're definitely interested in reducing friendly fire, but the article over and over tries to imply the military isn't that keen on it. The title itself implies that too.

Not once in this 6000 word article is there a definitive reasoning for why his solution was rejected. It's all just conjecture and testimony from the inventor himself. Poor.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by bbarnett on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:13AM (#26670280)
I agree with what you said as one possible path to "why", but one look at the history of the Bradley Tank shows how meaningless time/money can be in large orgs. Especially political ones.

Couple this with big name/external validation, and the fact that the best and brightest techs don't flock to the military (too dogmatic)...

The F35 is the new Bradley tank, and how much was spent?

Anyhow, you're probably correct, but I take exception to the reasoning being how much the military spent, or how long they worked at it.

(note: In times of war, all the political jockeying ends, disappears, and the military becomes lean and efficient. In times of peace, politics exist, including funding games.)

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by p_l on Friday April 02, 2021 @07:02AM (#26670472)
The difference is that the Bradley was actually a good design - the main source of bad PR about the project is also the person responsible for significant portion of the cost overruns and problems.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by tomatotomato37 on Friday April 02, 2021 @10:08AM (#26671532)
The Bradley was such an atrocious design for it's intended purpose (an APC) that it managed to invent a new category of vehicle which turned out to be useful as a modern day cavalry.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by p_l on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:21PM (#26718099)
Except by the time Bradley design was finalizing towards prototypes, the new category was already defined. It was never supposed to be just another APC, because M113 was already known to be deficient, and the long and tortured process happened because Army didn't know the goal yet - and thus required exploratory work. And then BMP-1 kicked the anthill.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by i80and on Friday April 02, 2021 @10:17AM (#26671602)
I'm interested in hearing more about this: I greatly enjoyed The Pentagon Wars of course, but I haven't heard a defense of the Bradley's development process yet
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by p_l on Tuesday April 06, 2021 @06:26PM (#26718153)
Some good material to follow, beyond the publicly accessible history of the project (which is long, since the fact that M113 was deficient was known before the final direction of the replacement was figured out), using somewhat popular formats:

https://old.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/erpmjm/having_j...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/truth-to-the-pentag...

And finally a bit on the background of the Fighter Mafia member who wrote the black PR book that was used as basis for the movie (PhD thesis on the Fighter Mafia/Reformers and their influence in decision making in both USAF and elsewhere):

https://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2097/38768/...

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by PicassoCTs on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:28AM (#26670113)
Anything that can reliably identify you in combat, is a homing beacon for any enemy. Even if you have to "light yourself up", that can be done with disposable drones, and then strike at the targets. Thus, you will have to reduce battlefield id systems the more sophisticated a enemies technology becomes.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by thedrbrian on Friday April 02, 2021 @05:52AM (#26670214)
Doesn’t mention anyway to change the code either. So all the energy has to do is record the good guy IFF and gaffa tape a copy of the device to their guys and they’re good.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by TeMPOraL on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:10AM (#26670264)
And a solution that would require code change isn't nice either, as rekeying equipment and spreading the public keys around is a huge logistics ordeal. These problems are never as easy as "pulse some light with some crypto on top". Hell, the very existence of an active IFF signal is already something that distinguishes you as a military target, so the enemy could just use your IFF as a homing beacon.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by Aeolun on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:43AM (#26670386)
From the article I understand that it’s not an active device. The beacon is passive until it is illuminated by the firing party.

Theoretically maybe still a problem if the enemy is waiting for that moment to shoot at you, but to wait for a friendly fire incident seems a bit inefficient.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by h0l0gr4ph1c on Friday April 02, 2021 @07:42AM (#26670618)
so the firing party has an active homing beacon, aimed at you, just before they are about to fire? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yep no problems with that approach at all
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by Aeolun on Friday April 02, 2021 @07:55AM (#26670673)
Can you avoid a hellfire missile if you know it’s coming?

Those things use active radar themselves, or alternatively, follow a laser (presumably generally from the firing vehicle).

I’m not sure if the temporary radar pulse is going to make much difference.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by TeMPOraL on Friday April 02, 2021 @11:11AM (#26672048)
> Can you avoid a hellfire missile if you know it’s coming?

Not really, but if the aircraft launching that Hellfire announces itself like that prior to firing, just to check who you are, it may give you just enough information to fire at it preemptively, or at least know (or let others know) where to look for it.

It's not a problem if the US is fighting a technologically inferior opponent, but apparently (from what I've read on HN the other day), the US military is retooling itself towards competition with China, so they have to consider their technological trickery being used against them.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by Aeolun on Sunday April 04, 2021 @06:21AM (#26688229)
> at least know (or let others know) where to look for it

I think this only works for the targeted party, which sends a pulse, which you could potentially triangulate on. The firing aircraft sends a very narrow beam of signal, so unless you have a specific setup to detect the direction of the signal, you’ll just know you were hit by an unidentified radio beam.

I’m not a radio expert though, who knows what I’m missing :)

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by girvo on Friday April 02, 2021 @09:44AM (#26671345)
You’re probably right, but military procurement is a slow moving, change and risk adverse nightmare too: that’s probably just as much the reason why he had little success, even if we do take him at his word.

Simply, he’s not Raytheon et al. It’s a rare piece of tech that any large military adopts from individual inventors.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by tomrod on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:10AM (#26670270)
It sounds like the investor doesn't get the SBIR/STTR process and failed to find a Program of Record who could fund a solution, or, having found such funding sources, didn't listen to the customer need.
Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by BiteCode_dev on Friday April 02, 2021 @07:15AM (#26670516)
You can place a bomb that triggers only if a beacon is there to reflect light.

It's a hard problem.

Re:A Fatal Error Inspired a Plan to Reduce Friendly Fire by Joker_vD on Friday April 02, 2021 @06:52AM (#26670426)
> The fact that the military has and is investing billions of dollars to try and solve friendly fire events shows...

...that they're willing to spend billions of dollars and account for them as "investment in prevention of FF". Whether that means they actually want to prevent friendly fire or not is a different matter altogether, because of the way the money-distributing and -spending decisions are made.