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A comment on Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland. Parent comment

Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by yorwba on Friday March 19, 2021 @10:33AM (#26513778)
> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them?

ASML's machines aren't something you can just copy by buying one of them. (You'd do better by hiring ex-ASML engineers to teach you how to do it.) And ASML would've sold their EUV equipment (just as they continue to sell previous-generation machines) if their export license had been extended by the Dutch government, but the US applied pressure to make sure that didn't happen.

You say China took too long to open up and industrialize. Well, they are open to buy from ASML and industrialize with their help, but others are closing that door...

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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by brutus1213 on Friday March 19, 2021 @11:04AM (#26514140)
I think people who think China can be contained are being naive. As an academic, I am extremely impressed with the improvement in scientific publications in CS out of China of late. In 10 years, they are now killing it on a consistent basis (personal anecdote: a paper from Tsinghua or Shanghai Jiao Tong on average is as good as one from Berkeley, Stanford or MIT). I have a feeling it has to do with the reality that Chinese nationals (or people with some ethnic/language connection) are an integral part of cutting edge science globally. It is extremely do-able to entice these individuals back. Western countries have severely under invested in research .. even back when I got my PhD (like a decade ago), my job packages were far superior in Asia (not just China) than in the West.

I think in 5G, some top level planners in the West have realized the error of their ways, and are investing heavily in basic research. I think it is too late.

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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by 908B64B197 on Friday March 19, 2021 @05:32PM (#26518324)
> (personal anecdote: a paper from Tsinghua or Shanghai Jiao Tong on average is as good as one from Berkeley, Stanford or MIT)

Wait until Berkeley Stanford and MIT get better network security! [0][1][2]

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/us/chinese-scientist-canc...

[1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-11/chinese-...

[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-e...

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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by danielscrubs on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:48AM (#26521704)
Those links provided doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Berkeley, Stanford nor MIT?
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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by nottrobin on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:33PM (#26525895)
Also, only one of them has anything to do with theft. The other two are simply unrelated news stories about people with links to China - one was a US researcher who may have lied to get a visa, the other simply a "policy breach".

To cite them here is firstly to lie, as they aren't relevant, but secondly to show some pretty xenophobic tendencies, equating any news story connected to anyone Chinese as being proof of some other anti-Chinese theory.

Pretty disgusting.

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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by petre on Saturday March 20, 2021 @06:48AM (#26522131)
Israel seems to be selling chips to Chinese companies and weapons to Azerbaidjan unhindered by US pressure though.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/cheap-drones-china-tur...

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Re:Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland by tablespoon on Friday March 19, 2021 @06:17PM (#26518694)
>> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them?

> You say China took too long to open up and industrialize. Well, they are open to buy from ASML and industrialize with their help, but others are closing that door...

There's also the elephant in the room: China is controlled by the Communist party, which holds values that are antithetical to those of many of its trading partners (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea...). Neither Taiwan nor South Korea have that kind of incompatibility. It was kind of naive and arrogant for Western trade policy to focus on stuff like IP theft and market access while ignoring that elephant.

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