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Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by fab1an on Thursday March 18, 2021 @11:15AM (#26503537)
The clotting with AZ is very different and more serious than what the thrombosis associated with the pill - about half of those who get it die even with best medical care. It predominanctly affects folks who would have a miniscule risk of death by Covid19, so this absolutely needs to be investigated.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by tyfon on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:12PM (#26504184)
I saw the description by the doctor who treated the person who died here in Norway. He called it a "catastrophe in the brain" [1] and the life just could not be saved.

It sounds really nasty. Blood clots + low blood plate count at the same time.

[1] https://www.nrk.no/norge/innlagt-helsearbeider-dode-_-unders...

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by raducu on Thursday March 18, 2021 @04:04PM (#26506974)
Isn't the low blood platelet a direct result of the clots, isn't that expected?

Don't the clots need/use up thr platelets in the process of clotting?

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by type0 on Friday March 19, 2021 @05:34AM (#26511462)
Probably just a different pathway that gets activated without involvement of much platelets, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coagulation
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by tyfon on Thursday March 18, 2021 @07:07PM (#26508506)
I have no idea since I am no doctor but from what I read in the article it's not a common situation. The usual treatment for blood clots is blood thinners. Not exactly sure how they work but I've thought it thins it by lowering the number of plates.

But it seems that the spike protein on the virus/vaccine is quite similar to a protein on the blood plates so if the body has a runaway immune system response to the vaccine it could attack the blood plates too.

The implication here is that this could be true for all the vaccines, there are some similar reports in Israel which do not use the AZ vaccine.

These cases are extremely rare though which is probably the most important thing here. It should not disqualify the vaccines.

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by raducu on Friday March 19, 2021 @08:55AM (#26512714)
Thanks so much for the info.

I was just wondering about Israel -- they vaccinated sooo many people, if this was an issue with the body's reaction to the S protein, it should pop up in Israel too.

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by iso1631 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:57PM (#26504757)
A few weeks after my dad had a covid vaccine he had several seizures, which have continued to happen.

On top of that, nearly 3 weeks into hospital and he caught covid. At least the vaccine worked and that's mostly sorted.

MRI says he has suffered catastrophic brain damage and is about to be released for palative care for the last

Now importantly

- I don't know which vaccine he had (and I'm certainly not going to bother my mother over that at the moment)

- He's suffered from seizures for the last few years, although those normally follow infections and high temperatures

But it's disquieting

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by inpdx on Thursday March 18, 2021 @01:41PM (#26505340)
That's awful. I'm sorry for you and your family.

"He's suffered from seizures for the last few years, although those normally follow infections and high temperatures"

A vaccine will certainly cause the body to fight the perceived infection, including with high temperatures for some people. It's possible given his history those vaccine side effects should have been considered?

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by julianlam on Thursday March 18, 2021 @01:01PM (#26504812)
I'm sorry to hear about your father's suffering. However I feel it's important for you to sound an alarm to the relevant doctors and/or public health units if you feel there's a link between his seizures and the vaccine.

Whether or not it was the AZ vaccine or not..

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by iso1631 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @01:29PM (#26505200)
They know he had the vaccine and they know his medical history far more than I do - I'm not a medical expert, they are.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by carlmr on Thursday March 18, 2021 @05:40PM (#26507856)
But are they thinking about it right now? Maybe asking them about it would trigger a response.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by eastendguy on Thursday March 18, 2021 @11:51AM (#26503929)
Yep, this^ is the point. It is amazing that this key point is missed in so many discussions.

Now.. maybe it is still worth the risk for a young 20 year old female, but I am not so sure - especially since we luckily have other vaccines that do not show this risk.

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by Retric on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:06PM (#26504101)
There are safer vaccines so there is little point in risking this one. That said, it depends on how many future infections people that age face.

If this vaccine is causing at most 4 deaths per million people* vs 648 recorded US covid deaths 15-24 out of a population of 43.5 million. 4 * 43.5 = ~174 < 648. So, it would have been noticeably safer for a random 20 year old American to have taken it Jan 2020 than risk covid. https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/topics/Dem...

So if the total future infections are say 1/4 the total infections up to this point then their roughly equivalent risks. Tipping one way or the other based on actual number of infections.

* It’s rare enough that actual risks aren’t clear, but assuming the vaccine is the cause we can assume the risks are at or below that level.

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by tim333 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @05:09PM (#26507582)
Well it's certainly worth doing risk reward calculations but so far they seem pretty clearly in favour of taking the vaccine.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by jobigoud on Friday March 19, 2021 @05:27AM (#26511420)
If you assume you are 100% getting the virus maybe. But if you take a lot of precautions, work from home, don't get out unless necessary, wear a mask... it's not clear at all.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by tim333 on Friday March 19, 2021 @08:29AM (#26512488)
I guess if you are very low risk. I figure as a guestimate - people killed by vaccines - prob less that 1 a day. People killed by covid - about 7000 a day. So covid looks worse. Not a sophisticated analysis although the regulators do do those.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by Mauricebranagh on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:11PM (#26504164)
So why not prescribe aspirin until say a month after the second dose.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by AnthonBerg on Thursday March 18, 2021 @12:13PM (#26504203)
Because aspirin has no meaningful impact on as severe an autoimmune platelet implosion as is described in these cases.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by raducu on Thursday March 18, 2021 @04:09PM (#26507026)
Are the clots any different than the ones caused by COVID-19 itself?

Do we know for sure it's just the AZ vaccine and not the body's reaction to the spike protein(that is, other vaccines should face the same issue).

Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by Mauricebranagh on Thursday March 18, 2021 @02:00PM (#26505536)
Ah so its not just thickening of the blood then fair enough.
Re:Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the Astr... by jiofih on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:41PM (#26506687)
If only medicine was logical like that. Not a cake recipe.