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Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:59PM (#26485996)
About 17 years ago I tried out some vamachara tantra exercises I found on the web. Heady stuff. It gave me a three week episode of full-blown mania. I only needed four hours sleep a night. I had this wild urge to run and jump everywhere I went.

After three weeks, it culminated in an auditory hallucination that was indistinguishable from telepathy. Then the mania suddenly drained and never came back however often I repeated the exercises.

Years later, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but it's usually fairly mild, with hypomania and mixed states which get worse when under stress. Nothing was ever again as intense as the meditation-induced mania of 2004.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by tartoran on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:14PM (#26486096)
Perhaps this was one of the many possible triggers and not a cause. It’s possible that some stressful events in your life would trigger something similar at a later date. The thing is that once such an episode happens one learns about some limits and how to stay away from them. How is your health now? I used to have some slight hypomanic states which were very productive and creative but would end up with a depressed and brain foggy period before I learned to avoid those triggers. One of those for me was drinking too much coffee, poor sleep hygene and some poorly done or unattended breathing exercises which resulted in a short but very bad period of hyperventilating and a few panic attacks. Some 14-15 years have passed since and have been feeling just normal, if not much better as I have a better diet and a more ballanced lifestyle: exercise, good sleep, etc
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:23PM (#26486140)
Thanks for the question. My mental health these days is usually okay, although drinking too much is a problem for me, along with intermittent insomnia and depression. Having a stable income helps, and I live a lifestyle which doesn't invite much stress.

Glad to hear you're also feeling better these days :)

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by nemo1618 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:09PM (#26486064)
Very interesting. I wonder if meditation acted as a "trigger" experience, much like how heavy use of psychedelics is known (or at least widely believed) to trigger latent schizophrenia in people who are predisposed towards it.
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by kayodelycaon on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:15PM (#26486104)
I’m bipolar. My understanding from my own experience is that any attempt to play around with altered states of consciousness is dangerous when you’re already predisposed to psychosis.
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by kumarvvr on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:12PM (#26486084)
Really curious. Can you give more details?

Vamachara stuff is forbidden and can lead to extremely dangerous reverse effects.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:20PM (#26486125)
It might be forbidden within the context of certain religious paths/orders, but it's not forbidden for random people on the internet to experiment with whatever exercises they come across.

I think the site where I got it doesn't exist any more. I think I have a copy in my own archives somewhere.

The basic gist of the practices was a combination of various asanas, mantras, pranayama and visualisation.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:52PM (#26486323)
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by IAmGraydon on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:38AM (#26486601)
You sure it wasn’t the text color/background combination that caused your psychotic break?
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @01:04AM (#26486769)
hahaha :D
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by blobbers on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @03:37AM (#26487666)
I clicked this way back link, and it reminded me of what the internet used to be.

It was so much cooler.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by thevardanian on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:41PM (#26486256)
It's not about it being religious, but about it being dangerous, or in some ways a hinderance/harmful to the self.

Kind of like how self harm is forbidden. Vamamarga is psychological self harm, in a sense. Aghoris then take that same principle to the next level.

The problem is people fetishize, or in other ways make arguments and ideas about Indian origin things within the context of religion. That has in my opinion done far more harm in understanding the philosophical approaches of Dharma than any other misconception, including translation errors.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:01AM (#26486381)
Perhaps you're right, but I wasn't operating within a Buddhist or Hindu paradigm at that time. I was exploring a wide variety of practices as part of a novitiate with the Pact of the Illuminates of Thanateros.

Even if someone had told me that it was risky, I still would have had the attitude of, thanks, but I need to find this out for myself from experience rather than just take your word for it.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by thevardanian on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:38AM (#26486602)
And that's fine. In fact that is itself a valid argument within the Buddhist/Hindu context. I would even argue it's basis of both "religions"; proof through self experience.

So again, the point here is that it's important to be knowledgeable about whatever subject matter that you're taking part in, not least because of being respectful, but because that way whatever task is being undertaken can be done "correctly". Including, perhaps especially, if you have belief in occult ideas.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by blobbers on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @03:35AM (#26487642)
As someone ignorant, and I mean no disrespect by saying this...

this thread reads like an H.P. Lovecraft or Dan Brown novel. Please keep this thread alive, it's fascinating!

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by thevardanian on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:34PM (#26493487)
Psychedelics man...

They'll mess you up.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by ta988 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:22PM (#26499142)
And you're the only one that may not notice.
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by mangamadaiyan on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:31PM (#26486204)
Who forbids it?
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by frongpik on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @01:38AM (#26486994)
From wikipedia: Vāmācāra is a Sanskrit term meaning "left-handed attainment" and is synonymous with "Left-Hand Path".

In occultism, "left hand path" means black magic. So it would be the "right hand path" followers who forbid practice vamachara.

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by hnick on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:47PM (#26486290)
Interesting piece on it here. I wasn't aware of these terms.

Basically, by definition it is about breaching Hindu societal taboos, unless I am vastly misunderstanding this brief summary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-hand_path_and_right-hand_...

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @12:04AM (#26486393)
This is the syllabus I was working through: https://web.archive.org/web/20040612155253/http://www.kamaka...

It isn't obvious that asanas, breathing exercises, mantras and visualisation are somehow breaching any taboos of any society that I know of ;)

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by mulberrybush on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @04:42AM (#26488051)
This is derived from kriya yoga, not Vāmācāra. Another similar online tutorial is https://www.aypsite.org/10.html. Real Vāmācāra by definition involves breaking all taboos - see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hiKDMsIHn8 (warning - it is pretty horrific)
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by Nemrod67 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @07:42AM (#26489682)
Watching the doc, all I see is LARP.

Why do we consider those seriously while making fun of LaVey's rituals?

Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by ta988 on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @10:43PM (#26499245)
Most human activities could be seen as that. An american screaming madly at its tv screen showing a football game with ads telling them what to buy. A priest burning frankincense and telling other humans what to do... Those are all meaningful for the people practicing them and can look ridiculous for others.
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by mulberrybush on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @04:04PM (#26496149)
Shouldnt consider any of it seriously - it is all LARP all the way down...
Re:Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation by asymptosis on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @05:41PM (#26497114)
Thanks for the heads up. When the link said "vamachara" I just took it face value.