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Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by southerntofu on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:58AM (#26474776)
This is a very good example of why so-called "intellectual property" (and "private property" as a sacred right) needs to be abolished entirely. It's just a tool of social control that prevents people from sharing/studying things, and makes people die from diseases that we know how to cure (pharmaceutical patents).
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by userbinator on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:43AM (#26476573)
I prefer to call it "imaginary property", although I do not agree with you on "private property".
[dead]
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by southerntofu on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:19AM (#26475718)
Of course we do need art. But most artists are not protected by copyright, quite the contrary! They get extorted by producers and other mafia-like organizations taking their rights away and "eating" all their income as administrative fees.

According to official SACEM statistics, 66% of their registered artists (who pay membership dues) don't receive a single cent over an entire year. The Cour des Comptes (highest french authority for public spending) has published detailed analysis about the copyright mafia and how their 6-digit salaries really don't help artists make a living.

How to make a living is an issue in all of society, not just for artists. We should address this problem globally by making sure wealth is redistributed according to everyone's needs.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by Rule35 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:46AM (#26476607)
> We should address this problem globally by making sure wealth is redistributed according to everyone's needs.

An artist doesn't need the dole, they can get a job and make art on their own time.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by Rule35 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:26PM (#26478976)
If I said "I make decorations but they cost more than people want to pay for them" I'd be told to get another job. If I say "I make art but I'm poor and starving" people feel sorry for me.

There are two types of art, one customers call art when buying it. The other that an artist calls art when lamenting that people won't buy it.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by sopp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:08PM (#26484933)
Some artists work full time already, we are not talking about hobbyist here but professionals
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by Rule35 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:32PM (#26485085)
Then they're successful enough to not be the ones I'm talking about. If you sell art profitably you're a business, in the art space.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by zepto on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:12PM (#26485367)
> We should address this problem globally by making sure wealth is redistributed according to everyone's needs

Many people would say that it already is.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by tenebrisalietum on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:59AM (#26476746)
No. Don't mean to be ugly but when it comes down to it, it's not needed. It makes life more pleasant but isn't necessary for survival.

Which means it's somewhat out of balance for an IP protection scheme to exist that allows an entity to perform/create a work of art once and then sit back and collect on it for the next 150+ years.

Work once, get paid once. Musician? Venue commissions you, you get paid. Visual artist? Someone commissions you, you get paid.

Anything else is a benefit to one person or company at the expense of everyone else. A limited such benefit, per the original idea of copyright, is fine if society wants to encourage the arts. At what point is society oversaturated with "creatives" though?

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by logicchains on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:09AM (#26475233)
That's why we don't have any great art from before the 1700s when copyright law was first introduced. Well, maybe one or two artists, like Leonardo da Vinci, Michaelangelo and Rembrant, but the quality of their output was vastly inferior to all the many amazing works being produced nowadays. /s
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by lordnacho on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:40AM (#26475427)
Artists get paid for building a brand around their creations, not for making loads of pieces of the same thing. If someone were to copy one of his paintings, it would clearly not be of the same lineage.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by hoppyhoppy2 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:23AM (#26476351)
>Artists get paid for building a brand around their creations, not for making loads of pieces of the same thing.

I think many novelists, filmmakers, photographers and songwriters would disagree. Piracy can affect their ability to earn a living from their work. Few regular people care about the "lineage" of their ebooks, digital photos, audio streams, video files, or mp3s as long as it's convenient and allows them to enjoy the artist's work.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by mhh__ on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:09AM (#26475628)
And if a company decides to adorn their brand with that art?
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by mkl on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:21AM (#26474916)
Without copyright, most software probably wouldn't be written, most books wouldn't be written, most movies wouldn't be made, most music wouldn't be made, etc. I think the copyright term lengths are currently insanely long, so I can see good arguments for shortening them considerably, but I think abolishing copyright entirely would do far more harm than good.

Software patents on the other hand could probably be abolished without much ill effect (as they already don't exist in most of the world).

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by logicchains on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:07AM (#26475219)
>Without copyright, most software probably wouldn't be written, most books wouldn't be written, most movies wouldn't be made, most music wouldn't be made, etc.

Copyright didn't exist forever, yet we have music and books from before then. Shakespeare was before copyright. Most of the best creatives create for the joy of creation, not for money. Like open source.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by mkl on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:36AM (#26475403)
I used the word "most" for a reason. Not "all".

Shakespeare made a living from the performances of his plays, not the written documents. Musicians made money from performances too. Most famous historical painters and composers had wealthy benefactors that enabled their work.

Creative people obviously enjoy creating, but professionals are doing it to earn a living. Look at the books on your bookshelf and the movies and TV shows you watch. How many were made purely for joy with no expectation of making money? Maybe some, but not most.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:09AM (#26475635)
I think in a world without copyright, the ways that creative people earn a living would certainly change, but I'm not sure it would mean it would be impossible to be successful doing those things.

Musicians already earn a large portion of their income from things other than sales of their albums - whether it's touring / merch / advertising deals. All of that could exist in a world without copyright. The equivalent might not exist yet for movies, but in a world where movies were freely distributable, someone would find a way to still make it a business. Maybe the giant blockbusters would go away, but maybe that's an acceptable price to pay.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by SyzygistSix on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @02:15PM (#26480665)
The argument about musicians rings a bit hollow, as most musicians nowadays make their living as performers and shopkeeps, which I do not think is good for the state of the art at all.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by JetSpiegel on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:11PM (#26485703)
> Shakespeare made a living from the performances of his plays, not the written documents.

But if there was no copyright, why did the Globe owners pay him at all? Just perform the old plays for free! He was payed for creating something new, copyright was worthless because we did not live off selling old works.

Copyright couldn't help Shakespeare to create more or better plays anyway, he was limited by how much boot-licking the Queen was acceptable to the audience, and how many "obscene" stuff he could sneak in without angering the Queen or the Church.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by meepmorp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:43AM (#26475451)
Shakespeare was a businessman - he wrote plays for money. The Globe didn't run on the love of creation. Bach's work was entirely possible because he got hired by a rich guy who funded his creative output. You'd never have heard of him if he had to support all of the little Bachs on whatever coins he could get busking.

And so on.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:06AM (#26475610)
That just bolsters the point you're replying to. If Shakespeare was doing it strictly for artistic merit, and money didn't enter into it, that's an argument for copyright - since presumably there's far fewer people who are willing / able to pursue creative projects strictly for the artistic merit without any regard for income.

The fact that he was a businessman demonstrates that copyright isn't completely necessary to make creative works a viable business.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by meepmorp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:47AM (#26475991)
The fact that nobody currently follows Shakespeare’s business model indicates that it’s not viable any more.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by burntoutfire on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:55AM (#26476077)
There are plenty of people who live off writing screenplays for movies and TV.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by meepmorp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:47AM (#26476614)
Plenty of those people depend on copyright law to prevent studios from stealing their scripts and producing them without paying the writer. Or are we supposed to against independent creators, and insist that artists return to the patronage system so we can eliminate copyright?
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by JetSpiegel on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:15PM (#26485733)
> Plenty of those people depend on copyright law to prevent studios from stealing their scripts and producing them without paying the writer.

Like that never happens now. How many independent creators did successfully sue a studio since copyright law has come into play? How many pitched a script to a studio, only to be rejected, and having the same idea rewritten on a spec by others?

Is it worth it to keep Steamboat Willie under lock and key?

Might as well tax the IP secondary sales and just give every living author with works registered in the Library of Congress a stipend.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:08AM (#26476205)
I'll let the live theatre industry know they no longer exist.

Snark aside, I think there are people who make a living creating things that don't rely on copyright (music artists that make their living off merch and live shows, theatre as mentioned above), and even if there weren't, that's not particularly surprising because copyright laws exist - without them, there would be stronger incentives to discover other revenue streams.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by meepmorp on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:24AM (#26476356)
Does live theater depend on having a resident playwright who doesn’t copyright their work? I missed that detail in the years I worked as a stage electrician.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by cestith on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:24AM (#26478009)
Live theater absolutely depends on copyright. Do you think playwrights and musical composers just let all those theaters use their work for free and, what, work as cashiers at Trader Joe's?
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:43AM (#26478314)
Absolutely some people earn money based on selling rights to shows. But there's also profitable theatres that just do remounts, where copyright represents a cost, not a revenue source. At least where I am, the festival theatres remounting Broadway shows pull in more money than anyone producing anything original.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by cestith on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:25PM (#26482389)
Where do you think those theaters redoing other people's shows get those shows? Do you think Broadways playwrights and musical composers do what they do so the show can run in one theater for a month then in every community theater in the country the next month, undercutting their market? Do you think the show producers would put shows on Broadway and in the West End if those were the economics of it?
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:43PM (#26485172)
According to this argument though, who would ever mount a Shakespeare play? The theatre down the street could rip you off at any moment.

Theatres remount things and profit from it. Theatres do original works without much intention of selling the rights later and profit from it. Obviously there are going to be a ton of examples where copyright is used to generate revenue, because it exists and why wouldn't you copyright something when there's no cost to doing it and potential upside. But there's plenty of evidence that live theatre would still exist without copyright.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by cestith on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @09:42AM (#26491086)
I'm not sure you're fully understanding what copyright is. On the one hand, people see it as protection from unlimited copying. On the other, it's literally a way to allow others to license a work that society might otherwise decide belongs only to the creator or their patron.

Broadway might still exist. All the theaters, especially community theaters, across the country that don't have Eugene O'Neill or Richard Rodgers would have a terrible time pulling a full house if Bob's nephew wrote all the plays. If there was no way to protect the works made for Broadway, the incentive for people to spend the time writing, composing, arranging, designing sets, making costumes, and choreographing those shows largely disappears. The show can be redone down the street or in Omaha the next week, and all the money goes to the theater doing the ripping off. The show can be videotaped and shown on Hulu the next night, and all the money goes to Hulu.

Shakespeare's plays are beyond the time limits on copyright, which there definitely should be. They are also considered classics. The performance, believe it or not, can still be under copyright. You can't generally go in and record the performance and put out your own stream or DVD of it.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by JetSpiegel on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @10:17PM (#26485738)
Don't most theater artists work at Trader Joe's anyway? It's not exactly a lucrative job, modulo Broadway.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by Tepix on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:31AM (#26475370)
To be fair, when digital copies arrived at essentially zero cost, it was a huge paradigm shift.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by forgotmypw17 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:07AM (#26475221)
I think the best of software would still be written, and would probably get more resources towards it
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by mkl on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:51AM (#26475504)
Maybe, but I think way more things would turn into web services instead of offline apps, and that that's where most of the resources would go. Subscriptions everywhere, and slow all-code-on-server interfaces. And there would be draconian contracts to try and prevent developers from walking out the door with the source code.
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by ryanbrunner on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:10AM (#26475642)
I think that's more or less happening with or without copyright. I don't have a single piece of standalone paid software installed on my computer (either it's open source and free, or it's something that connects to a service that I do pay for)
Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by pmlnr on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:03AM (#26475191)
IP is a product of the 20th century United States. Books were written before that, music was composed before that, paintings were painted before that.

There's also this software type called Free (Libre) Software.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by mkl on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:26AM (#26475340)
Copyright existed before that, and copying was way harder. Now we have instant perfect digital copies.

Free software is great, but most software is not Free, and most companies/organisations that use Free software don't contribute to its development.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by southerntofu on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:14AM (#26475679)
> most companies/organisations that use Free software don't contribute to its development

That is a big problem. But the underlying issue is competition (a pillar of the capitalist system) and we should address that instead of trying to fix surface symptoms. If there were incentives to cooperate for the interest of humanity instead of competing for private profit, there would not be a problem.

Re:Adobe Goes After 27-Year Old ‘Pirated’ Copy of Acrobat Re... by indymike on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:41AM (#26475932)
"That is a big problem."

No, it's actually by design. When I write free software (I don't do it a lot), I don't expect anything of my users. There's no obligation on the user, and there's no obligation on from the author. That is the whole point. Other people may have other motivations, but for me, it's always been, ah, maybe this will help someone else out...

Also, a very important point: cooperation and competition are not opposed to one another. They are equally valid and often cooperation arises from competition.