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Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by pjc50 on Friday March 12, 2021 @08:30AM (#26435600)
> The internet snatched civilization destruction from the jaws of progress.

Remarkable how someone can post this bad take on the internet on the internet forum for the most internet-connected people who work on the internet.

I'm old enough to remember when the internet was a liberatory technology. Even facebook/twitter were getting praised as recently as 2011 for the Arab Spring. And of course, even today, "cut off internet access" is a key checklist item for repressive governments.

That doesn't mean there aren't severe problems being caused by social networks, but we should be specific about what they are and targeted in our solutions.

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by forgotmypw17 on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:40AM (#26437624)
I grew up on the Internet, made a living with it for a long time, and still spend a good portion of time online. Making things for the Web is one of my favorite things to do ever.

I was one of the early "adopters" of attached life, often neglecting "meatspace" pursuits in its favor.

We have created some huge problems for ourselves and for others, and we have to work hard on solving them.

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by thatcat on Friday March 12, 2021 @08:36AM (#26435654)
Remember also that the arab spring featured some coups, G was found to be shaping traffic during some of the re-elections to shift voting. Internet is not inherently good or neutral.
Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by pfarrell on Friday March 12, 2021 @09:25AM (#26436127)
Totally agree those actions would be an abuse of power, but Google is not the internet. Google is among the most powerful entities on the internet. I worry that it wields the power of a nation state without the checks and obligations that constrain actual nations. But I can imagine a post-Google world where the internet persists. I think the internet is neutral. We users are not.
Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by krapp on Friday March 12, 2021 @09:52AM (#26436388)
> I worry that it wields the power of a nation state without the checks and obligations that constrain actual nations.

The power of a nation state is based on its ability to maintain and control property, levy taxes and enforce compliance with its authority through a monopoly on violence. The premise that Google or any web platform has anything near the power of a nation state is ridiculous.

Also, Google isn't an independent state, they're a corporation and as such are subject to the laws of the nation(s) in which they operate. They do what they do because governments allow them to, not because they have the power to defy governments at will.

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by LinuxBender on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:05AM (#26437199)
In my opinion, Google is more of a monitoring station for governments, [1] as is Facebook [2]. I agree that they do not hold the power to directly levy taxes or enforce compliance on their own accord. They can probably influence voting and other aspects of public perception. Netflix has a show called "The Great Hack" [3] that starts to go down this rabbit hole as well.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbKxUYl3WSE

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shpiVm1qpnw

[3] - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4736550/

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by pfarrell on Saturday March 13, 2021 @01:25AM (#26444480)
Very nice, krapp. Despite the downvotes, you've given me some things to think about this weekend. I will concede I was hyperbolic in equating Google with a nation. I've picked that up from sci fi and futurist stuff, but I'll have to think about how it would work in reality, for a corporation to gain that kind of authority.
Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by HappySweeney on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:52PM (#26438606)
Do you have a source for Google shaping traffic during some re-elections to shift voting? I ask as I have never heard this, it's a big deal if true, and sounds like a conspiracy theory (nb: how it sounds does not make it false).
Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by thatcat on Friday March 12, 2021 @01:31PM (#26439106)
See @linuxbender's reply, The Great Hack was where I heard about it first.
Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by pjc50 on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:43PM (#26438477)
> Internet is not inherently good or neutral.

I agree! But, given that it exists, acting against it is hardly neutral either. I would argue - and this is deliberately a separate post from the top of thread - that many of the problems come from techno-libertarianism mistaking neutrality for impartiality, and assuming that a technology that doesn't explicitly mention politics is apolitical.

The internet allows true information to circumvent censors and permit the organisation of dissident groups against repression. It also permits the circulation of false or misleading information which has the effect of promoting violence and repression. Trying to distil this down to "internet good" or "internet bad" without having a clearly articulated politics is silly.

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by damagednoob on Friday March 12, 2021 @09:48AM (#26436349)
> Technology is not inherently good or neutral.

FTFY

Re:Sir Tim Berners-Lee warns of widening digital divide by darepublic on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:20PM (#26438162)
Boredom is good for you but it's damn boring