> When you look at vegetarian cuisine outside of india, with very few exceptions in terms of restaurants and few exceptions in terms of dishes, it looks like unimaginative dimwits took to the pans.

If you've only experienced chinese food at the typical US chinese restaurant, then you may be deceived as to just how wonderful the underlying sauces and flavors can be. But if you get a chance to explore the space, you may want to look at the the "Chinese Cooking Demistified"[1] youtube channel, and on youtube there are 2 seasons of what look like culinary tourism bait called "Flavorful Origins"[2] (which is not exclusively vegetarian) I think that when you start to see some of the incredible available flavors in just the 2 regions they've covered (neither of which are szechuan, hunan, or shanghai, which are better known for their cuisine in the west), you may re-consider the sentiment I quoted.

Which in no way diminishes how incredible the vegetarian cuisine of india is.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC54SLBnD5k5U3Q6N__UjbAw

[2] https://www.netflix.com/br-en/title/80991060

Ah, what I meant was more, there's some dishes that are vegetarian and good (plenty of soups and small "side-dishes" that are delicious but they're usually not "full-meal" kind). And there's also some very good vegetarian restaurants but they're few and far between.

I don't have much experience with chinese food outside of the regular more westernised versions you mention (which I do like), I tried a more typical chinese (at least that was how it was described to me) restaurant once and indeed the food and menu was different from the normal chinese restaurants I knew.

China is also huge so I imagine it has a lot of variety throughout with completely different takes on it. Vietnam, Thailand and such also have interesting vegetarian dishes.

I like all of them and I also like italian and many others but what I meant is as far as I've tasted and seen in terms of vegetarian food nothing comes really close to the variety in and around India (Nepal, Sri Lanka, etc), probably due to cultural roots based on vegetarian traditions? And this difference is also in terms of like, what you can get in an end of street corner, almost stall like place, to eat (not even a "restaurant") - some of the best vegetarian meals I've had where in places like this.

I would like to visit china some day and see for myself for sure.

A couple of points :)

1. The yellow lentil dish is not usually called a curry (google the word 'curry', it is a much abused omnibus term for many Indian dishes). It is called a dal, as in "dal fry" or "dal tadka" (and not dhal(l) either :)

2. Coconut (or any) sambal is not an Indian dish, it is SE Asian, like Malaysian, although some Indian chutneys may resemble sambals in taste. India has a similar-sounding dish called sambar, but it is completely different. It is a kind of thick soupy dal which is sour (from tamarind or lemon or tomato) and often has some vegetable pieces in it. (Spices too, of course.) Usually served to go with rice, as in sambar rice, or with idli or dosa(i).

Anyway, nice to hear you like dal and rotis that much (e.g. 5 days a week). I do, too (with a sabji as well), and the same for rice, dal and sabji (a vegetable curry or dry veg dish). Those two combos are what the bulk of millions of Indian live on, day in and day out, even today. Except that some substitute some millet[1] or other for the rice or wheat (roti). And those can taste even better. But that is another story.

[1] India has many millets, of which jowar and bajra are probably best known, but others are making a resurgence these days. In some ways they are more nutritious, and also, many need less resources (like water) than rice and wheat do.

whoops, got my culinary knowledge put in place.

1) yeap, confirmed that's it

2) this was in Sri Lanka, they did also have sambal that is closer to the one with onions done in Malasya/Indonesia but this one was with coconut and no onions, more dry than wet, just fine strands of what seems semi-dry coconut with spices (smashed chillis?) and they served it in many regular places along the dal tadka?

The idea I have is that it was called sambal as well but I might be wrong or be the tourist name? (and india is big and has many different types of different cuisines - one thing is common throughout though, vegetarian food is good and varied anywhere)

Well yes, I actually ate it many times (not for lack of other choices but it was a dish I enjoyed eating repeatedly). There's others I liked a lot but can't remember the names if I'm being honest. I know it when I taste them though ahah.

Thank you for correcting me, I have to go back and do a proper research and take notes of it.

> In some ways they are more nutritious

This is one of the things that I think separates vegetarian cuisine well done from others. You never feel like the dishes are lacking in taste, texture, or that you haven't got enough "food" to keep you well fed while still being usually light on the body.

Regarding (2), were you thinking of sambar [1]?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambar_(dish)

Na, that is different. If you search "sri lanka yellow curry coconut sambal" you will see, it's just coconut fibers/chunks smashed with chilli I think, a very pale red looking thing that is usually served as a complement to the dal.

Sambar looks good though

>whoops, got my culinary knowledge put in place.

Ha ha. No, to be clear, I didn't mean it in a critical sense. We all make mistakes and don't know a lot of things that some others do. It was in that spirit that I was sharing stuff I knew a bit better, due to being Indian.

>1) yeap, confirmed that's it

Cool.

>2) this was in Sri Lanka, they did also have sambal that is closer to the one with onions done in Malasya/Indonesia but this one was with coconut and no onions, more dry than wet, just fine strands of what seems semi-dry coconut with spices (smashed chillis?) and they served it in many regular places along the dal tadka?

Ah, that probably explains it. Sri Lanka cuisine had some Malay peninsular influence from the Sri Lankan Malays (a misnomer, look it up).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_cuisine

The sambal you are may be from that origin. I was surprised because sambal is not generally used in India, as I said (and wrongly assumed you ate that dish in India). That sambal sounds like it may taste good, BTW - coconut and red chillies. Rich flavor from coconut and heat from chillies. Maharashtra in India has a similar one called lasun chutney, made from garlic and red chillies and some other common Indian spices, maybe cumin and coriander (powder, not leaf). A wet paste. Goes well with Maharashtrian dishes, as well as with parathas. Use in small amounts, it is strong and has a delayed effect.

>one thing is common throughout though, vegetarian food is good and varied anywhere)

True. Indian vegetarian food is underrated, IMO. One reason is that you only get a few of the huge variety of veg dishes in Indian restaurants, whether in India or abroad. Only the most popular ones. But plenty of others are tasty, some might say more so than the restaurant ones. E.g.: You usually never get a dry or wet cabbage curry in most restaurants - as an individually bought dish, in a la carte menus, I mean, because, you do get it as an item in veg thalis - and that currry is a damn tasty dish. There are many more like that. Only way to experience them is to get invited to an Indian friend's house for food.

I wish India and countries abroad both had more restaurants serving such items, particularly regional ethnic ones and traditional ones. They could be a big hit with people. In fact, some of those recipes will be lost in another generation or two, likely. A food startup (though maybe not high scale) and a food museum opportunity there.

>Well yes, I actually ate it many times

Dals are great. Good umami food and good protein too, although to be complete, they must be had along with cereals like wheat or rice, in roughly a 1:3 ratio (1 dal : 3 cereal units). Read this in a book from the Indian Institute of Nutrition, a govt. research body, long back. Turns out our ancestors may have discovered that point empirically, because that is the rough ratio in which we tend to eat that combo. Only then do you get the amino acid profile that humans need for complete protein (from veg foods) - so said that book.

>Thank you for correcting me, I have to go back and do a proper research and take notes of it.

Welcome :) Good idea to take notes.

>> In some ways they are more nutritious

>This is one of the things that I think separates vegetarian cuisine well done from others. You never feel like the dishes are lacking in taste, texture, or that you haven't got enough "food" to keep you well fed while still being usually light on the body.

I agree. And usually easy to digest too. Only a few items like chana (chickpea) and say rajma (red kidney beans) and bajra (a millet) are a bit heavy. But nutritious.

And there is a certain not quite describable good feeling you get (at least I do, but I think many others too) after eating an Indian veg thali meal. (I've heard many others mention this when coming out of restaurants after eating a thali meal.) It seems to be more than just satiety. I don't get the same feeling even after eating an a la carte Indian veg meal of individual dishes, like say roti, dal and some sabji, or the same but with rice instead of roti. Only with veg thalis (North or South Indian) do I get that feeling. Guessing here, but I think it may be due to the particular combinations of ingredients and spices and masalas used, many of which are traditional and Ayurvedic in nature. (The rasam, curd or buttermilk may also be part of the cause.) I have heard that there are a few books that talk about this connection, but don't know the names. Want to read them.

"Only then do you get the amino acid profile that humans need for complete protein (from veg foods) - so said that book."

Your body actually maintains a reserve of amino acid and they do not need to be eaten in the same meal to be combined.

article by a registered dietician: https://www.theveganrd.com/vegan-nutrition-101/vegan-nutriti...

meta analysis: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VYIETAn9p2JdDompJkMUVO1_PSZ...

Thanks for those links. Interesting. Yes, you're right. I learned that only recently. But IMO my original point still holds true if a person eats a mainly cereal- or mainly pulse-based diet (even if it includes other items like vegetables and fruit). Because then the body does not get enough of some needed amino acids to preserve and combine with others later. Of course this assumes they do not eat much of any other complete protein like dairy products or eggs. But that was my original premise, because I was talking about vegetarian food (and in the context of Indian vegetarian food). Almost all Indian vegetarians do eat dairy products (via tea, coffee, milk, buttermilk, yogurt, paneer, etc.), but not commonly enough to provide a significant amount of protein, is my guesstimate. Can't say about how many people eat eggs (I know many do), but it may be a significant percentage, and more so nowadays with more Westernization. But my comment was mainly about those who don't eat much of either dairy or eggs. Punjab may be a special case because they tend to eat a lot of paneer and drink a lot of lassi there, even if they are vegetarian.

I know that vegetarian means plants plus dairy plus eggs in the West, but am using the term in the Indian usage, where it usually means plants only, plus some dairy.

> The sambal you are may be from that origin. I was surprised because sambal is not generally used in India, as I said (and wrongly assumed you ate that dish in India). That sambal sounds like it may taste good, BTW - coconut and red chillies. Rich flavor from coconut and heat from chillies.

Yeap, I kinda lump Sri Lanka as if it is India when it comes to food because I thought the food would be similar to South india, but like Nepal and others it probably has plenty of overlap but also plenty of differences.

(and yes, it's really good I can assure you - the dal part is almost sweet, I mean it's not sweet it's just, light or something, and the sambal contrasts really well with it, for my more moderate spicy tolerance it was a perfect combination)

I don't think I ever tried (knowingly at least) Maharashtra food - I do tend to not go for the spiciest/hot things though.

> But plenty of others are tasty, some might say more so than the restaurant ones.

Yeah I think this is everywhere. Even some places that are more "local" where you'll get roti coming out of the stone oven and there isn't even a menu. Hard to beat.

> although to be complete, they must be had along with cereals like wheat or rice

Yeap, but curries/dal/etc always goes really well with rice because you have "cream". And with roti too. Always.

> Guessing here, but I think it may be due to the particular combinations of ingredients and spices and masalas used, many of which are traditional and Ayurvedic in nature.

I won't say it's because of it, as I have no idea, but it could well be because of following Ayurvedic ideas - by what I heard it has a pretty descriptive and coherent system when it comes to food. I also think that vegetarian is just usually lighter on your body even when it comes to rich/highly nutritional ingredients.

When you say North Indian to which part specifically you're referring to?

> When you say North Indian to which part specifically you're referring to?

In this context (veg thalis), I used "North Indian" as a loose generic term to refer to the kind of veg thalis that you get in literally the Northern, or roughly, the upper half of India, stretching from Madhya Pradesh upwards through Uttar Pradesh, Punjab and Haryana, etc. (All those are central or northern Indian states.)

There are probably some common things and some differences in the thalis you get in those areas, but speaking broadly, they can be considered as one region (Northern). As in, you'll typically get either chapati/roti and then rice, or just chapati/roti, with a dal (tuar, mung, or chana dal) or a whole pulse/legume (mung, chana, lobia or rajma) gravy item, and one to three dry or wet vegetables dishes. (The exact vegetable items you get, and the style of preparing them and the dals or whole pulses, may vary between subregions.) May get a salad or a raita or a chutney too. Pickle/achar and papad, ditto. And a dessert, and buttermilk, or lassi. Depends on how elaborate the food place and meal is. I usually prefer fewer items, myself. Otherwise the food gets too heavy. One tends to overeat if not careful, which I don't like, even though, as you said, the food is light overall, so it digests somewhat fast, and you feel lighter again soon.

I will make any other replies later due to some work I have, in a day or two. But good discussion, thanks. Enjoyed it :)

>The sambal you are may be from that origin.

Damn, autocorrect. It changed "ate" to "are" in above sentence. It even autocorrects the same thing (wrongly, again) after you edit its previous wrongly autocorrected word. Gets it wrong more often than not. Even converts my right spellings into wrong ones. Started after recent update. Disabled it now.