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Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by krasin on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @10:36PM (#26419905)
I didn't downvote and not an activist of any kind (even if there's a campaign, I am not a part of it). But I am very pro-nuclear, so would like to respond to the second half of your message: the nuclear waste problem.

This is a real problem. Three ways to address.

1. One I don't like, but that's widely deployed: create remote storage facilities and just store it there. This is what's done now, it works, but the costs are pretty high. What's worse, store a tonne once, pay for it forever.

2. One I like a lot and it's getting adoption in Russia: they built light-water reactors that work on nuclear waste ([1]). So, same fuel is used twice and the results are much less dangerous. What's good is that these reactors can run on anyones waste and Russia already imports nuclear waste from Europe.

3. The third option is funny: it might become viable in the next decade. Ship it to the Moon. The math is simple: 1 kg of fuel generates about $5000. If Starship makes the cost of shipping <$500, it would be a no-brainer to ship it all to the Moon. Theoretically, it can also be used as fuel there (see point 2) to generate power for moon bases.

In the short term, option 2 looks pretty reasonable to me.

1. https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Russia-proposes-new-...

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by andbberger on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @10:51PM (#26419995)
It's not a real problem. There really isn't that much high-level nuclear waste and we have a problem with classifying too many things as high-level waste in the US.

For the little actual high-level waste that is produced it's a pretty viable medium-term solution just to leave it onsite at the power plant.

The long-term solution is obvious: you bury it in a deep unmarked hole, duh.

This has been done [1].

Say it with me, there is no nuclear waste problem.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkalo_spent_nuclear_fuel_repo...

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by pfdietz on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:35AM (#26541387)
Don't bury it. The biggest problem with that is the heat builds up. Just keep it near the surface, where the heat can be dissipated.

In 300 years, the fission products are mostly gone (except for 7 "long lived fission products" with halflives in the 10^5 years or longer), so the waste is much easier to reprocess or otherwise dispose of. The problem then is that the radioactivity has dropped so much that amateur diversion of plutonium becomes a concern.

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by f_allwein on Thursday March 11, 2021 @01:28AM (#26420925)
Would you be fine if we store the nuclear waste in your community then? How will you mark it to warm future generations of its dangers?
Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by andbberger on Thursday March 11, 2021 @01:52AM (#26421085)
Absolutely! If there is suitable geology, be my guest. Or if there were a neighborhood nuclear power plant that was storing waste medium-term, that would also be welcome.

I imagine my neighbors would be less welcoming, but they'll complain about anything (heart of NIMBYville here)

Oh and you don't mark it. It's in a deep hole, no one's going own there.

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by drran on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:49AM (#26423414)
> Absolutely! If there is suitable geology, be my guest.

I suspect, geology is not suitable.

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by gameman144 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:27AM (#26421661)
> How will you mark it to warm future generations of its dangers?

This is a question that's been looked into, and with an interesting past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-time_nuclear_waste_warnin...

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by godelski on Thursday March 11, 2021 @12:36AM (#26420648)
> create remote storage facilities and just store it there.

What's wrong with this? This is literally what we do for every other type of waste.

> One I like a lot and it's getting adoption in Russia

You may be interested in what France has been doing for quite some time[0]. The reason America doesn't do it is because fuel is cheap. A small benefit of option 1 is that when fuel is no longer cheap you have an easy point of access. But at the end of the day you still have to put waste somewhere.

> To the moon!

This option likely won't happen as it is exceedingly dangerous. If a rocket blows up then radiation goes spraying everywhere. This also makes it a big target. Though see below for why this could be an option.

Something you haven't mentioned is using waste for other things. This isn't uncommon actually. But given your comment I'm under the impression that you think waste refers to a byproduct from the fuel (forgive me if I am misinterpreting). This is actually an extremely small part of the of the waste. About 3% of nuclear waste is high level waste. People talk about the 60k tons of total waste for all of nuclear power being able to fit on a football field, well only 3% of that is high level waste (which also should change how you think about option 2 because you'll realize that it doesn't solve the waste problem because that's not what the waste is). Low level waste is 90% of the waste, accounts for 1% of the radiation, and is things like tools, clothing, etc[1].

Actually that last part is why the conversations about waste are often seen as quite silly by those who are more familiar with the subject. Because it appears one group is talking about spent uranium as waste and another is talking about bunny suits. Again, 90% of the waste contains 1% of the radiation. Let that sink in.

[0] https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr...

[1] https://www.world-nuclear.org/nuclear-essentials/what-is-nuc...

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by fuoqi on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:54AM (#26422252)
Well, France is a bit different in this regard, they indeed have a great expertise in fuel recycling, but the parent comment was talking about fast-neutron reactors such as BN [0] and BREST [1]. Reactors like this not only can "breed" fuel, but also can "burn" the waste as well, thus drastically reducing amount of waste which has to be buried and it makes the waste safer as well, since it will not contain those annoying minor actinides with half-lives in the range of 1k-100k years. France had the Superphenix project [2], but unfortunately it got shut down without a successor...

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-800_reactor

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BREST_(reactor)

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superph%C3%A9nix

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by godelski on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:10PM (#26429035)
So the main part of my comment was really at the end, discussing what is fuel waste and what is auxiliary waste. This is often a difficult conversation with nuclear. Most people don't realize how little the waste is. They then don't realize that only 3% of that tiny amount of waste is the concerning high level radioactive waste. The honest reason we don't invest more into breeder reactors or re-enrichment plants is because the fuel is cheap and we don't create enough waste to worry about it. America had and used the same technology as France, but gave it up because it was too expensive. But this tiny amount of waste is generally why many think you can just bury the waste from the plant on site and move on. Place the high level lowest, medium, then light waste (which is 90% of the material and 1% of the radiation) on top (or we could make a container this way). We're not talking about much physical material from a single plant. We're talking a coke can per person per year (total nuclear, not a single plant) where 3% of that coke can is concerning. Nuclear is already extremely expensive, why increase the cost? Cost is the only real argument against nuclear.
Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by fuoqi on Thursday March 11, 2021 @04:48AM (#26422201)
>What's good is that these reactors can run on anyones waste and Russia already imports nuclear waste from Europe.

You should not mix returning spent fuel rods back to Russia and Uranium tails which Russia processes since it has a more efficient enrichment technology. Often when you hear about "Russia imports radioactive waste" in news it's about the latter and it's a blatant fearmongering. As for the former it's good deal for Russia (since with a right technology such as fast-neutron reactors you can produce new fuel rods from them with a minuscule amount of long-term waste) and for the world (since it contribute to non-proliferation, you don't want storage facilities of highly radioactive stuff which can be easily used for production of "dirty" bombs in every country which has a nuclear reactor).

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by el_nahual on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @11:13PM (#26420127)
The reason storing nuclear waste is expensive is because you don't want people to be able to get to it and you don't want it to escape if something goes wrong (ie, a flood).

Strapping it on a bomb to push it to the moon is obviously never going to happen, no matter how many successful launches SpaceX has.

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by pfdietz on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @02:48PM (#26571404)
The real reason storing nuclear waste is expensive is... not something that is actually true. Storing nuclear waste isn't expensive. Nuclear waste could magically disappear and it would only have a very minor effect on the economics of nuclear power. Or, a country could splurge and reprocess spent fuel, at a higher cost than just storing it, and also not significantly change the economics (this is what France did.)
Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by adrianN on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @11:43PM (#26420348)
That seems like a "simple" matter of putting it in some container that survives a rocket crash intact.
Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by fsflover on Thursday March 11, 2021 @05:34AM (#26422481)
No, nuclear waste is not a real problem: https://whatisnuclear.com/waste.html.
Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by numpad0 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @05:10AM (#26422326)
> they built light-water reactors that work on nuclear waste ([1]). So, same fuel is used twice

You know what that mean? That means they enriched spent fuels. That means “high level waste” = “crude Uranium ore”.

Why would you want means of unrecoverable storage for “high level waste” yet not actually carry out that plan? Because those are precious nuclear material.

That also means Option 3 is politically improbable: means Russians and Chinese might refine it into nukes up there and away from the world to see.

Re:Nuclear power looks to regain its footing 10 years after ... by fuoqi on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:53AM (#26423443)
Russia already has more than enough nukes and has agreed to limit its stockpiles together with the US (this agreement includes mutual monitoring of warheads). None of those countries need the "burner" reactors or imported spent fuel rods to build more nukes (and usually those rods are simply returned to a country of production), there are far easier ways of doing it. Uranium ore can be easily bought on international market and even can be extracted from the ocean water at a reasonable (but economically unviable at the moment) cost.