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Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by BlahGod420 on Saturday March 06, 2021 @03:41AM (#26366070)
It's a data problem. Not a language model one.

Wolfram alpha will literally answer.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by unityByFreedom on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:21AM (#26366229)
Evaluating the quality of language models is a challenge in itself. This post just presents another way to see how much your model can understand alongside a new model. This is typical when presenting new tech for which old evaluation methods might not tell you anything.

It's not really about getting the answer to that question as it is about figuring out how much information your model can glean from text.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @03:44AM (#26366085)
I tried "How heavy is half an elephant on Moon?" and all I got is a wiki-like page :/
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by wyattpeak on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:00AM (#26366153)
That's a heck of a question to expect an AI to answer. It's weird (we almost never discuss half animals), oddly phrased ("on the moon" is much more standard), and runs afoul of an imprecision in English (we normally given masses when asked about weight, this requires an answer in force, or else by analogy a mass with equivalent Earth-weight).
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by perl4ever on Saturday March 06, 2021 @10:36PM (#26372909)
A question that's not "weird" has been asked and answered before, so you can answer it with a database and zero "intelligence".

I think you're lowering expectations for an AI to zero.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:09AM (#26366178)
It's tailored to be difficult, I took this course right after the question above was autosuggested to me.

Also while "the moon" could mean anything, there's only one Moon. I gave it a fighting chance.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by IshKebab on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:16AM (#26366211)
Dunno if you're native but ".. on Moon" is not right. It should be "..on the Moon". Don't ask me why it is different for Earth and the Moon but it is!

I would expect any language model to be robust to minor errors like that though so I doubt it makes any difference.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by astrange on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:38AM (#26366301)
It's because the name of the moon is "The Moon", not "Moon". I think SF writers sometimes pretend it's called "Luna" so it'll have a more interesting name.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by nicoburns on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:47AM (#26366344)
It is "la luna" in spanish. So I don't think SF writers are pretending.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by narag on Saturday March 06, 2021 @05:01AM (#26366410)
Spanish, that's right, but I guess they mean Latin.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by dTal on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:13AM (#26366894)
They pretend it will be called Luna (in English), because "The Moon" is a silly name when you routinely travel to lots of moons.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by snypher on Sunday March 07, 2021 @12:46AM (#26373491)
It's name is Moon, and it's referred to as "the moon".
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by d0mine on Saturday March 06, 2021 @05:12AM (#26366454)
It is Luna (Луна) in Russian
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by dotancohen on Saturday March 06, 2021 @05:43AM (#26366555)
And other well-accepted sci-fi terms are of Slavic origin as well. Robot, for one, and that term actually transferred to colloquial language.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by ralphm on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:23AM (#26366705)
Except that Luna in Slavic and Latin just share the same ancestor in PIE.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:32AM (#26366282)
Thanks! I'm indeed not native :) In my own defense it "felt" like it was missing something. However I am confident there are many moons and just one Moon, our own.

Also, the answer is 1.62kN to 4.8kN, I know Wolfram doesn't employ a language model or anything of a sorts, but with all the other NLP magic I've seen I sort of expected a valid answer.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by nandhinianand on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:25AM (#26366253)
Bleh.. .English and it's weird grammar .. Sometimes I find it such a messed up language compared to my native tongue..... I guess it's the separation of modifiers and nouns that's part of the problem.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by nandhinianand on Sunday March 07, 2021 @01:34AM (#26373711)
Seriously a downvote ?? for what?? ughh.... "bavula kappa" ==> frog in the well.. a metaphor for biased people(or people who live in a bubble).
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by karmakaze on Saturday March 06, 2021 @11:36AM (#26368517)
It shouldn't really be that difficult. If it's capable of structuring "How heavy is _ on the moon?" The answer would be start out the same way looking for weight of _.

It seems to me that these kinds of questions could be handled but require some adjustments or tuning more than we need fundamentally different approaches. We can't do everything at once so there's going to be simple things that don't work for quite a while.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by TheCoelacanth on Saturday March 06, 2021 @01:59PM (#26369608)
It's a question that a B+ student in high-school physics could answer with a few minutes of googling.

If that's beyond the capabilities of AI, then it obviously isn't living up to the hype.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by wyattpeak on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:51PM (#26371674)
Well, yes. A B+ high-school student can also reliably recognise the number 710. If you think that AI should be able to do something just because a high-school student can, I think it's your expectations which are out of touch.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by TheCoelacanth on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:40PM (#26371972)
My expectations are fine. The AI hype is out of touch.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by ForHackernews on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:27AM (#26366715)
It is a tough question, but we keep hearing from AI-boosters about how the Singularity is right around the corner and have you seen this AI that can make plausible-looking text?
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by 6pac3rings on Saturday March 06, 2021 @04:30AM (#26366275)
Needs a supervisor for cheeky monkey curve ball playful question to interpret answer on gradient of seriousness from thousands of mind model with access to knowledge library and language as commonly used. The part before "on" doesn't sound out of place from a template for language exchange in a butcher's shop and "on Moon" is a playful reframing adjusting the physics model. A child lucky to have a parent with training in physics would get an answer easy to this question.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:43AM (#26366781)
Or it simply needs to be augmented with something other than GPT. The form of my question is very easily solvable in a programmatic way, just not by a GPT based neural net. Someone mentioned multi model training, that sounds awesome!
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by hypertele-Xii on Saturday March 06, 2021 @05:16AM (#26366472)
> (elephant weight) / 2 * (moon gravity / earth gravity)

> 160 to 520 kg

There you go. Wolfram Alpha literally answered, just needed to translate your question to math ^_^

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by mannykannot on Saturday March 06, 2021 @08:34AM (#26367230)
Nice answer, but it actually supports the point being made here. NLP is an attempt to see how far we can go in processing natural language, without doing this sort of translation, and without structured knowledge bases. As (I'm pretty sure) Wolfram Alpha contains a structured knowledge base and draws on it for this sort of question (though not without help in this case), its abilities are orthogonal to the issues addressed in the article.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by Cybiote on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:19AM (#26366916)
A quibble is that when I see kg, mass, I expect that it should be measured the same whether on Earth or on the moon. The answer should be in Newtons.

Our query to Wolfram Alpha should thus be:

(mass of elephant)/2 * moon gravity

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:35AM (#26366750)
Good effort! But gram is not a unit of weight.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by gopkarthik on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:29AM (#26366952)
It was interesting to note that on typing "how heavy", the only search suggestion I got was "how heavy is an elephant".
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by charcircuit on Saturday March 06, 2021 @05:43AM (#26366556)
Half an elephant is undefined. Which half are you counting? Each half doesn't necessarily have the same weight.
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:36AM (#26366752)
Actually "half" is pretty dang well defined :)
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by rsfern on Saturday March 06, 2021 @06:51AM (#26366810)
Well even if you take the most symmetric halves by volume, the density of an ideal elephant is not uniform. Some organs don’t come in pairs and all that

I guess it depends on how many hairs you want to split and how precise you want the answer

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by Engineering-MD on Sunday March 07, 2021 @03:11AM (#26374170)
However most unpaired organs don’t contribute to a mass asymmetry. It’s thought this has evolved to aid with locomotion as any asymmetry will negative impact on efficiency
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by notum on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:16AM (#26366904)
The answer can never be precise for the very reason that not all elephants weight the same (breed, age etc.).

I was looking for an average from the get-go, but a half is a half!

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by rsfern on Saturday March 06, 2021 @02:51PM (#26369997)
I agree with you that a reasonable answer is an average, but a half on a volume basis is not necessarily equivalent to a half on a mass basis
Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by charcircuit on Saturday March 06, 2021 @07:38AM (#26366981)
I disagree. You can have a left half and right half, but also a front half and rear half.

Half of the weight of an element would be well defined since it is just a number.

Re:Do Language Models Know How Heavy an Elephant Is? by Engineering-MD on Sunday March 07, 2021 @03:09AM (#26374165)
“Let’s assume a spherical elephant”