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Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by nine_k on Monday March 01, 2021 @06:32PM (#26309991)
The underpinnings of the "cancel culture", the intolerance and mob mentality, were always around.

The "cancel culture" adds two news things to the picture. One is the ability for anyone to participate, not just the few on the TV screen or newspaper pages. Another is the attempts at totality: expel the victim from every social media platform, every internet hosting, every payment platform, every public venue. It's not yet as bad as it was during the fascist years in Italy, but the approach is pretty similar. There is also no formal totalitarian party to drive it; people just join the cause by reposting a tweet, and acting accordingly when in a position to ban, expel, deplatorm, etc.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by oh_sigh on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:16PM (#26311167)
I think the inward-lookingness of cancellation is key here. Regarding attempts at totality, in the past, if you were cancelled, it was because you were group A masquerading in a group B world, and group B found out and kicked you out of B-world. But, importantly, Group B couldn't cancel you in the eyes of Group A, only in their own eyes. So if you were found out, your direct life got cancelled but there was frequently another segment of society welcoming you with open arms.

But now with the inward-lookingness of cancellation, you have people from group B who are cancelled by group B, and have no one to fall back on.

An example would be a teacher arguing for the support of gay marriage getting cancelled by a catholic school they work for. That person, in the past, could pick up their bags and move in with the liberals next door. Yes, they lost their job, and maybe half of their associates, but they still have the other half who would be more than welcoming of them for the plight they've been through.

But what happens when a group cancels their own? For example, the Peru N-word journo. By all appearances, he is a liberal-minded person, who worked for a liberal-minded newspaper, in one of the most liberal-minded cities in the nation. But now he got cancelled by his colleagues. What is he supposed to do - go hang out with white supremacists? Neither side would find that appealing. So instead he has to...not partake in society at all?

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by mantap on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:35PM (#26311291)
The world isn't split into liberals and the far-right.

It's split into tolerant people and intolerant people.

Some people wear a thin veneer of tolerance to cover their intolerance. These are the people doing the canceling. These are the people you don't want to associate with anyway.

But there's still plenty of tolerant people around in society.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by krageon on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:06AM (#26314875)
> But there's still plenty of tolerant people around in society.

I would argue people that don't really care are in fact the majority.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by robin21 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @09:47AM (#26315824)
> What is he supposed to do - go hang out with white supremacists?

Do you imply that the only groups in society are liberals and white-supremacists?

This is the problem liberals have...they have to get onboard with all the progressive stuff because they don't realize that everyone else is not a white supremacist as they are told by the NYT.

A lot of Trump support came from former Democrats who realized that they are no longer onboard with the ideals of the modern Democrat party pandering to the Progressives. These people didn't want a traditional religiously crusading Republican - they wanted opposition to identity politics and globalism.

There are good people in the center, and this Peru guy will be fine - but he should have realized a long time ago the NYT is not for people like him.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by president on Monday March 01, 2021 @06:56PM (#26310185)
Spot on. The interesting thing to note about the "mob mentality" of cancel culture in 2021 is that it is truly "power to the people". Essentially you have major corporations, politicians, and a media environment that are ceding to the cancelling demands of a certain majority because they will reap the rewards of this massive group of people whether that is more sales/profits, more votes, or more views. It is a story of a society that does whatever it needs to win, regardless of the collateral damage it creates.
Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by nine_k on Monday March 01, 2021 @08:13PM (#26310729)
I'm not even sure it's a majority, just a very vocal and intolerant group, seen by many non-participants as doing a virtuous thing, fighting for social justice.

Of course most businesses would not oppose such a force, because otherwise they will be a target themselves, and enough of a public opinion would be against them, at least vaguely. They have everything to lose, and very little to win if they do not conform. This is why the "cancel culture" easily makes them cooperate.

Apparently, in the eyes of many, freedom is seriously less important than justice, and justice is often seen as the right to not be offended by anything. Not that it's impossible to achieve, but the resulting society would end up extremely homogeneous.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by rayiner on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:19PM (#26311187)
Yeah, I’m very skeptical of who is the “majority” here. If you read Twitter and the NYT, you’d think that my minority group (American Muslim immigrants) is full of people like Ilhan Omar and Linda Sarsour. And it’s not. I literally know more Bangladeshi Trump supporters than super-progressive Bangladeshis. Plenty more Democrats, sure, but not particularly liberal ones.

One thing that’s important to keep in mind is that most people of color largely don’t even read the NYT, or NPR. Fox News is a far more popular news source among people of color, even Democrats: https://www.journalism.org/2020/03/11/black-and-white-democr...

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by mc32 on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:46PM (#26311700)
It's not unusual for 0-gen or 1st gen immigrants to be conservative (at least culturally and fiscally). The Republican party to their detriment has not taken advantage of this reality --being too busy fighting for somewhat edge cases or constituencies (conservative religion and corp interests) to the detriment of growing their base. Not that dems have not been guilty of the same mistakes (catering to edge constituencies like the progs and corp interests, just differently).

If the Republicans could find a candidate who better reached out to conservative minorities while not alienating their present constituencies they certainly would prove a strong contender, specially if the Democrats veer further to the Progressive agenda. Trump's problem was while he appealed to more minorities than most past Republicans he did not market it well and didn't put it front and center enough and also turned off the so called 'soccer moms' with his poor approach to the pandemic.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by rayiner on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:17PM (#26311865)
My mom reliably votes Democrat but is basically conservative. She was Trump-curious (she loves his “energy” lol) until he stopped governing in the last six months during the pandemic.

It’s not clear to me that you can make the coalition work. It depends on what issues you surface. Opposition to cancel culture is apparently something right wingers and my mom can both get behind—apropos nothing, she shared Bill Maher’s recent segment about McNeil on Facebook. I don’t think she’s ever watched Bill Maher in her life.

But of course, opposing cancel culture and winning back nervous Democrats like my mom is also a clear opening for... Democrats. Hint hint.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by mvc on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:22PM (#26311215)
What was the social justice being fought for when Colin Kaepernick was cancelled?
Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by hattmall on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:15PM (#26311516)
Quality of football. Kaepernick wasn't that good. Take a mediocre player brings in a controversy and its not worth the gamble. Have him out of the league and his skill falls further. What's more telling is that he is still talked about, most similar talent football players simply fall to the wayside. If he had been good he would have been playing football.
Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by mvc on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:25PM (#26311574)
Funny how it took 6 whole seasons to figure that out. Must have been a coincidence to do so when a lot of NFL fans are tweeting out messages saying they'll boycott the league if it doesn't cancel him due to his "disrespect for the flag" (a flag I saw recently being used at the capitol to beat up on one of those blue lives that I heard matter so much).
Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by guerrilla on Monday March 01, 2021 @06:45PM (#26310086)
Modulo specific technology, that's how life was if you were gay, Jewsish, Black, Asian or communist at certain times. None of that is new and the point stands.
Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by leereeves on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:22PM (#26311205)
It was wrong then too.

And what claim stands, exactly? Are you suggesting that because something bad has happened before, it shouldn't be opposed now?

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by pdpi on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:17AM (#26313406)
Because something bad has happened before, we should look at it happening now as part of an ongoing problem, instead of characterising it as new phenomenon.

I get your point, but if you tell me I did a bad thing, I can answer in one of two ways: “you did a bad thing too, so you have no right to criticise me”, or “you did a bad thing too, maybe we should have a frank conversation about why we both fell into the same trap”.

Re:Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring ... by leereeves on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:33AM (#26313488)
I don't think anyone's denying that the desire to cancel those who believe differently is an ongoing problem; in fact, that is implicitly acknowledged when recent actions are described as witch-hunts or McCarthyism. Those allusions to history are powerful precisely because this behavior isn't new.

And I'd love to see a frank conversation about how we can avoid falling into that trap, but such a discussion has to start by acknowledging that it is a trap; that is to say, that cancel culture is wrong.