> Why are you all pushing for this Signal crap when Matrix is objectively better...

At what exactly? Elaborate and enlighten us a bit.

> and doesn't require phone numbers?

That's true, but you know it's still not enough for John and Jane Doe to use it. Elaborate us on more reasons otherwise John and Jane Doe will use 'this Signal crap' instead or even will go back to WhatsApp. (Again)

In my country all phone numbers are registered to your name. If an app asks for a phone number into the trash it goes.

Because it's not "objectively better", and certainly hasn't been historically (and I say that as someone who has more conversations on Matrix than on Signal, and thinks Signal made the wrong tradeoffs in some places)

for tech savvy people maybe but try explaining to your mother that you have to pick a server to register with, you need a username, it can't be your email address, then you can add your email and phone later to make it possible for others to discover you. I like it a lot it's just not nearly as straightforward

What's the easiest way to get started with Matrix, in a way that's objectively better than Signal?

Element on iOS crashes when I try to log in, so there's that.

Both Element/Matrix and Signal don't come close to WhatsApp, sadly.

> Both Element/Matrix and Signal don't come close to WhatsApp, sadly.

That is the unfortunate reality-hitting hard truth right there. Element and Signal are just not ready yet for serious widespread general use to compete with WhatsApp.

Signal is still immature and lacks tons of functionality compared to WhatsApp. Element suffers from usability and onboarding issues which frustrate the user. The fact we have to keep mentioning the protocol 'Matrix' next to the client name 'Element' creates further confusion to the user; leaving them to ignore it altogether. That's before they get confused and lost in the settings page.

Telegram on the other hand has a better chance to compete against WhatsApp.

I'm interested: aside from the phone number/backup issues well documented on every HN thread about Signal, which features do you think that Signal lacks?

"Streams" for example. You cannot create a group of contacts that only receive messages from you, but they cannot send into the group. Replies of stream-members only come to the creator of the stream. Moreover, members of "streams" do not see other members. Basically is a BCC functionality for messages. I am a signal user since ages and constantly try to "convert" people. I miss this.

Huh, TIL. I've never come across this feature - not on WhatsApp, iMessage, SMS (obvs)...

I think it's only in Telegram. Mostly used by businesses.

It's important to realize that Signal is aiming to be iMessage replacement Whatsapp/Telegram/Discord are more like "chatservers" with rooms. Signal right now focuses on simple 1to1 messaging with sending pictures/media etc. That's what they do really well.

Btw iMessage also have super basic desktop client. It works even worse than Signal desktop (random logouts and messages sent as different account with only "email"). It might not be so easy going from 1v1 fully encrypted chat to manytomany fully encrypted chatroom megaserver. Apple seems to also struggle with it.

WhatsApp has streams.